The markets are near all-time highs… which has many investors wondering whether to buy stocks in 2020.
So I asked Meb Faber, CEO and chief investment officer of Cambria Investment Management. Meb’s answer may surprise you, and he has a lot of research to back up his ideas, so pay attention. He also shares some of his favorite value plays right now [13:13].
Momentum stocks have dominated the market for about eight years now. But money is starting to flow into value stocks in a big way. In my educational segment, I share how to find the best value stocks—the ones that generate fantastic returns in a short period of time. You can’t afford to miss this [42:41].
- Guest: Meb Faber, CEO of Cambria Investment Management [13:31]
- Educational segment: How to find the best value stocks [42:41]
Wall Street Unplugged | 698
How to find the best value stocks for massive, short-term returns
Announcer: Wall Street Unplugged, looks beyond the regular headlines heard on mainstream financial media to bring you unscripted interviews and breaking commentary direct from Wall Street, right to you on Main Street.
Frank Curzio: What’s going out there, it’s December 4th. I’m Frank Curzio, host of the Wall Street Unplugged podcast where I break down the headlines and tell you what’s really moving these markets. Hope all you enjoyed Thanksgiving, the family. I spent it with my sister who came down from New York, we ate together, families which was really cool. And then afterwards, we took a nice plate to my mom who is in the hospital still. Who is finally being transferred out of ICU and into a rehab facility, which she’ll probably have to say about two, three weeks because she’s been in bed for two months. Things go much better, but just she’s going to start walking and building up her muscles again and making sure she’s okay to take care of herself at the house. So, I just want to say thank you for the prayers, I want to give you guys a quick update on that. And Thanksgiving, it’s just such a cool holiday. I mean, I love football, all the food and everything, but I can tell you, you’re always happy when it’s finally over, right?
Frank Curzio: I mean, there’s nobody that travels to say, your family members house on Thanksgiving and after they’d done, they’re like, “Hey, you know what? You mind if we stay a little bit longer?” I mean, no way that never happens. It’s like, “Hey, we’re here, everything’s good.” And then as it winds down, it’s like everyone’s looking at their watch is going, “Okay, we’re done.” I mean, even for the families that host Thanksgiving, and once that last person leaves, it’s like, whoa, thank God and how things get back to normal. And I don’t say that in a bad way, it just gets really hectic. And, it’s always great to see family but there’s usually a set time before we tell everyone to get the F out of my house. So that for some, it’s right after dessert, for others it’s after the four o’clock football game. But everybody has a set time.
Frank Curzio: This does get a little crazy, but I still love it. I love having family, I love everything about it, the food, being thankful for everything and football, I just again, it’s my favorite holiday it’s really cool. So, hopefully all you guys had a fantastic holiday. And once again, I want to say thanks for all the prayers for my mom who is doing a lot better.
Frank Curzio: Now, let’s get to the market, right? December, and open up this week with a few down days. It wasn’t too big, right? And the financial media goes nuts, they go nuts. I mean, I’m always looking at to gauge sentiment, to see what’s going on, what they saying? Because that’s what everybody watches. I like to watch CBC, Fox Business, whatever it is, read the Wall Street Journal, they started going nuts. I don’t blame them since there’s almost nothing to talk about now that earning season is over, so is Black Friday. There’s really nothing going on.
Frank Curzio: So, they’re pounding, and I mean pounding, with stories about the trade war again. It’s on, It’s not on, you hear from a reporter in China, whoa, China thought that was a deal. And Trump’s like, no, there’s no deal yet, Oh wait, things are great today. I mean, this is 24 hours I’m talking about. China said, we thought everything was okay, then they said Trump walked away, he was not okay. And then today in the morning, which is Wednesday, he basically said no, think talks are great, talks are awesome. It’s just so funny where these sources come from. So, now we have the trade war on again, right? And that hurts stocks for a little bit. I mean, we were up a little bit, Wednesday. But, it’s funny when you have a couple of down days, you have the analysts comparing this December to last December. Guys I don’t know, it wasn’t that long ago we’ve come back at a near all time highs. But, the sell off last year was incredible.
Frank Curzio: I mean, it went down a ton heading into December and then towards the holidays where there’s very little trading and that was all al… I had no idea. It was just… It was amazing how hard the market fell the last few weeks of the year. Crash and people now think, well it’s December, the same thing is going to happen. It going to be worse and even a 20% decline over the next couple of weeks. I’ve to tell you guys, take a chill pill. I know some of these analysts, maybe they hungover from Turkey day, whatever it is, we’re down 2% from the highs. Relax, we’re down 2% from the highs. That’s it.
Frank Curzio: And I’m bringing this up because, getting lots of questions. People saying, Hey, worry about the market’s heading into next year, I see this starting to come down. It’s two days. Of course, I’m getting these emails after the market falls because it’s just… You don’t realize you’re being controlled, but you are. I mean everything you read, everything you do influences your next step, right? So, you’re watching something and you see something, you were going to react to it. When everything is just pounding you and saying, Hey, Mark is going to come down, Mark is going to just read negative stories, you start getting negative. And they start conditioning you. That’s okay, why are they doing that? Because negative sells. It always sells. You want proof, if you go on social media, when you post something nice, everybody likes it, you don’t care. The person that doesn’t like it, you’re going to respond to. Especially if they say all of this is a crappy or you don’t know what you’re talking about. That’s the person you respond to, the negative one, not the positive ones, never. That’s just how we’re programmed.
Frank Curzio: But the market coming down, look, I’m going to give you the same advice I’ve been giving you for at least the past three, four years: buy the depths. Stocks are not expensive at 17 times forward earnings and not that they’re cheap, but they’re not expensive. And especially not expensive, given our super low interest rates. With the Fed, yeah, expect to raise rates anytime soon, especially during an election year.
Frank Curzio: Speaking of election year, stocks tend to perform the best. And the most important factor when it comes to politics and getting reelected, I don’t care if you’re Democrat or Republican, but if you want to get reelected, the biggest factor is the economy, everybody knows. That’s not a secret, that’s not debatable. That’s what people focus on. It’s going to be hard to get Trump out of there with stocks at all time highs, unemployment is all time lows or close to it. And yes, you could point to retail factors and manufacturing and there’s some pockets that are showing that we’re not really, really strong, but we’re not weak. Economy’s chugging along. People are spending like crazy.
Frank Curzio: So, when you see these factors, unemployment record low, stock marketing all time high, Trump knows this. If we see a significant pullback early in the year, what is he going to do? Because if the market crash is 25% heading into November, he’s done. Anyone’s done. It has nothing to do what you did in the past. It’s all about what you’re doing right now. And maybe with the past couple of months, maybe, but there’s no way. So, he knows he’s got to do everything in his power and he’s been pretty upfront about this, to make sure stocks go higher. By putting the right policies in place, whether it’s deregulation with his tax cuts. I mean, I’m sure he’s going to stop floating ideas of more tax cuts if the market does come down. He has the ability to really play nice with China, since we are totally in the driver’s seat. I mean you listen to conference calls at the say probably 40 to 50% now, look at the numbers in Taiwan.
Frank Curzio: I know I just said that and you never going to look at them, but just if you get a chance, just look at the numbers and the figures in Taiwan and Malaysia. The American companies are moving. If you listen to the conference calls, they’re moving their supply chain. They already moved their supply chains and a large percentage of them out of China. That business isn’t going to come back once a trade deal is solved. And then you have Hong Kong, you’ll look at the statistics, I mean, I broke them down, China is a disaster right now. Other than singles day, which was awesome, man, it’s crazy. So, we’re in a driver’s seat. He could turn on the positive turn on, whatever he wants, betting on where the stock market is and ESP 500. We have very favorable fed policies in place, a very favorable president who’s, everyone knows, his gauge on economic growth and the economy is the S&P 500, whether you agree with it or not, I’m just throwing facts at you. And, he’s going to do everything he can to make sure stocks go higher under his presidency.
Frank Curzio: So, when I look at these factors, I just don’t see stocks pulling back and continue to pull back with these massive tailwinds. But, here’s the key difference guys, it’s not just simple, well, hey just buy the pullbacks and you buying all the technology company. No, it’s a different market now. And finding which stocks to buy in those pullbacks. That’s where my next guest comes in. His name is Meb Faber. Meb and I go back about seven years, met on stage at Stansberry conference. We spoke… We both spoke at that conference and then I spoke at several conferences with him over the years and we just hit it off.
Frank Curzio: It’s not because Meb, is great analyst. It’s really smart but he’s just cool down to earth and a straight shooter and I always liked that. And we always got along, if you’ve never heard him Meb, but I’ve had him on the podcast a few times, but he’s the co-founder and chief investment officer of Cambria Investments. He also is very big into ETFs, he’s probably want the smartest guys you’ll ever hear talking about that industry because he manages ETFs for Cambria and also separate accounts which we’re going to get to in the interview. He also has his own blog and host of his own podcasts. I’ll give you one guess what the name is, the Meb Faber podcast.
Frank Curzio: And I have to say, it’s one of the few, hopefully I’m not insulting too many people here, one of the few financial podcasts I listen to. Because he has good guests on, he’s entertaining, he’s cool, he does it every single week, so I don’t have to worry about him missing a week, which we always see in this industry. Because I’ve to tell you, I may have talked to, probably at least 50 people in this industry, in my industry, want to do podcasts.
Frank Curzio: They hate it, they laughed at me, now they all want to do podcasts. And I tell them the same thing of how to be successful, nobody ever does it. Just don’t miss a week and be yourself and make sure you get really good guests on. But, always have really good content, always try to educate your audience, always try to listen to what they want but the biggest thing is being consistent and Meb is one of those guys that is. Does podcast every week, has great guests. And again, one of the few I listen to in the industry. The mega quant analyst who has authored numerous white papers as well as several books. I mean, his research has said it just before. I love it, it’s really detailed, it’s amazing.
Frank Curzio: It’s always filled with tons of numbers that support his thesis, which by the way, I mean if you want one of the best way to spot great analyst, it’s finding people who could change your mind about something that you’re dead set against by putting facts and figures in there to support their thesis. I mean, there’s not too many people that have done that in my career, where I’m like, no, this industry is bad. And some person actually showed me research and I read it and completely changed my mind and said, whoa, that’s how you really know if there’s a good analyst out there.
Frank Curzio: And, Meb in certain cases where, I’ve disagreed with him, and after reading his research, I was like, wow, this is pretty impressive. That’s how I knew how good of analysis he was. I know it all, you know that if you follow his work, he is really great, I’m not choking him up. He’s just a really cool, you’re going to hear from a minute. And of course, he’s going to share his favorite ideas with you including one idea, that he is going to suggest, is the one place every investor should be investing at least a small portion of the capital, but they should be investing in right now. So, really great interview coming up. Then in my educational segment, I’m going to cover a new area of the market that’s finally seeing some love after eight years of underperformance. I’m not talking about money, I’m not talking about materials, I’m not talking about your aim.
Frank Curzio: It’s going to be really cool, because I’m going to show you how to find the best stocks in this space that have the potential generate more than 50% returns in just a few months. I’m not kidding when I say that, 50% returns in just a few months. And I’m going to give you examples of this happening. This is an area of the market a lot of you know, a lot of you have heard of. Please listen to this educational segment because this sector and this style of investing is going to dominate the markets at least over the next 12 months and you have a chance to get ahead of it and buy some really amazing stocks. Some of those are going to share with you in my educational segment in just a minute. But first, let’s get to my interview with the one and only, Meb Faber. Meb Faber, thanks so much for joining us again on Wall Street Unplugged.
Meb Faber: Frank, great to be here buddy.
Frank Curzio: Well, let’s get right to the markets here, which it was sold off a little bit this week, but very close to all time high still. When it comes to your clients and telling them, giving them advice because I was wondering what should we do here? Many people nervous, what are you telling them at a market like this that continues to go higher and higher? Is it, hey, buy heading into an election year take profits or is it more, forget about what the actual market is doing maybe shift allocations where we’re finally seeing a huge move from growth to value for the first time in many years, there’s a lot of smart money starting to pour into value stocks.
Meb Faber: As we wind down this year, as we wind down this decade, which I’m not really prepared for. And, as… In the coming weeks as New Year’s Eve rolls around and you toast your loved ones with a glass of champagne or for you maybe a Bud Light or a some chamomile tea, whatever it may be. When you look back, it’s… We’re pretty long-term focused and what an awesome decade this has been, particularly for US stocks. If you look back over the past 11 decades and it’s not over yet, anything could happen next three weeks, but it’s mostly got a bow on it, it’s been a fantastic decade. It’s been one of the top five decades for the US stock market going back historically. But, what does that mean going forward and just using that statistic, by the way, means that historically when you have the really good years, and by the way, just for perspective after inflation, the US stock market is done about 6.6% per year. Add on inflation, that gets you up close to 10, right?
Meb Faber: This decade is probably up around 12 somewhere around there. The best was the 1950s which was 17% and the worst was the one prior to this one, the two thousands minus three. But, if you look at the next decades after the best ones, the future returns, this is 1920s, ’50s, ’90s and those had done 15/16% a year. The next decade was 1% and then if you look at the worst ones, 1970s, 1910s, 2000s, they lost about 3% a year, future returns were great, they did about 12% a year. And so, we’re not… We’re kind of in the middle, we’re a little bit in the top half, But, there’s always the famous saying, if you say but, everything that you before you said that, ignore.
Frank Curzio: Exactly.
Meb Faber: The US stock market we think is on the expensive side. I don’t think it’s crazy like the late nineties. So, you combine those two things and the diagnosis is that, hey look, we’ve had an awesome run, but take your leave after New Year’s Eve, New Year’s day wake up, sober up a little bit and have some perspective. The average investor consistently expect 10% returns. Plus the average pension fund is around eight but if you look at the US opportunity set, US bonds is up 2%, we know that. And then, US stocks, what we forecast, low single digit returns, even Vanguard, you know what I’m saying? A diversified portfolio stocks and bonds, you should expect 4-5% and so a lot of people aren’t prepared for that because they extrapolate where we’ve been.
Meb Faber: So, celebrate this wonderful decade, the first that hasn’t had a recession. There’s been a lot of first this decade and particularly the US stock market outperformance versus the rest of the world. But, again I’m a trend falling guy, and so this can continue on as we know from markets. But, as far as expectations, at least have a little bit lower expectations for the coming decade.
Frank Curzio: So, Meb, great stuff there. And by the way, I think it’s so funny, I drink Bud Light. I do… I get shit on all the time by people, you drink my light and so many good craft beers but I think it’s so funny, that’s how many times we’ve drank together.
Frank Curzio: But, when… You brought in a lot of good statistics there, and I guess the biggest question for me is, where do you spot that? Because you’re talking about US stocks and you’re looking at 4/5% returns, whatever it is, maybe it’s a little bit high, but again, you’re not going to get the 10% on average. And I know that you look at international markets a lot. Are you seeing any areas there where, hey, it’s about asset allocation where US stocks could do well, but it’s not going all in on US stocks. I know you folks on a lot of the geographies, lot of countries, are you spotting value there? And I know the answer is probably yes, but not just value, but are we seeing the trend turn maybe in Europe where of course, value stats can sometimes get even more cheaper and cheaper. You want to see some kind of growth component. But what are you seeing outside the US?
Meb Faber: I’m going to make one more comment and then we’ll cannonball across the pond to the foreign markets. You know, I was looking at expectations for Wall Street analyst for next year for US stocks and they all cluster between minus 3% to 10% which it seems to be fairly normal. But, what’s interesting to investors as they look at their portfolio, that range is actually incredibly rare. So for example, that only happens about one in five years. Where you’re minus 3% to 10% where 80% of the time returns are better than 10% or worse than minus three. And so, over the short term, anything can happen, is partially my point. So, this year is a great example. US stocks romping and stomping. But, for this long-term perspective, if you look at valuation and most of the listeners in the US will have the vast majority of their portfolio in the US, typically for stocks it’s 80%. When as a percentage of the world, US stocks are really only half as far as the index and as a percentage to GDP, down around a quarter and percentage of population even less.
Meb Faber: So, if you look around the rest of the world, the bad news is US stocks are expensive. The good news is, the rest of the world is reasonably priced. So, foreign developed is down around long-term P/E ratio of 20 for an emerging, which is one of my favorite ideas, is down around a P/E ratio, sub 15. And then the cheapest of the cheap, the really gross stuff is down around P/E ratio of 12. And so, the funny thing though, as you take this perspective and people listening right now are probably pulling their hair out and saying, “Oh my gosh, why did Frank invite Matt back again, everyone knows emerging markets are total dog, why would you ever invest in that? That’s so stupid. You can’t trust China, yada yada yada.” Well, the funny thing is, if you look back from 2000 to the 2000 decade, emerging markets outperform the US by something like 300 percentage points, not basis points. Over the whole period US was a bagel, had zero returns essentially and emerging markets were romping and stomping, so, everyone loved them in 2007 the bricks, et cetera.
Meb Faber: But, they got really expensive trading in P/E ratios in the ’40s and ’60s from any of the countries. And then of course what happens, 10 years goes by and the US stock markets stomps the emerging markets. Emerging markets had done terrible this decade and it’s flipped, the script is flipped. So, emerging markets have done very poorly versus the US which has done amazing. And then markets have a way of doing that. You know what? The major romping party, amazing returns in one region, asset class, sets the stage for kind of more sober times going forward and vice versa. So, as think about your allocation listeners for the next decade, certainly I think a lot of the opportunity and valuations are abroad and you’re seeing, as we’re talking about trends and what’s going on in the world, you’re seeing some of those markets really start to outperform.
Meb Faber: This year for example, two of the cheapest markets in the world of the top five performing stock markets, Russia and Greece are both up there. I think Greece is up almost 50, Russia is up 30 something, but the US is in the top five too. And so people don’t really notice as long as the US is still one of the top in the world. But you’re starting to see some, I think Russia has been outperforming the US since like 2014 or 2015. So it’s… You’re starting to see some divergences going on, which I think is a good thing. But, obviously there’s still a lot of these countries are really struggling. So, at some point we don’t know when, we think it makes a lot of sense to be diversified across all of these countries and geography.
Frank Curzio: You bring up a good point there too, because you’re right, everyone cares about the US as long as the US is in that list. I didn’t know that Greece and Russia were in a top five either, so I didn’t know that. But… Because the US stocks is doing great, right? When they do bad, you always look for alternatives but it’s kind of fine that you said that.
Frank Curzio: Now, I wanted to go into how to play this, right? Because like you said, most of the investors listening to this, most investors that you talk to in the US, I know you travel the world and speak at so many different great conferences. They own US stocks and you have ways of getting into these markets and buying these markets where you have a whole list of ETFs that you can create it at Cambria. I want to talk a little bit about those because I think when people are looking for international exposure, they want the easiest way possible and of course that lend to ETFs and things like that whether you can buy some similar stocks. Why don’t you talk a little bit about that? Because it seems like that’s how they can get exposure if they want.
Meb Faber: And so, the easiest way, the starting point we always tell people is the global market portfolio, half stocks, half bonds, half US, half foreign. And then you can start to tilt away from these big passive market cap weighted indices. Obviously we love value, that’s a classic approach. I think it’s even more important in foreign markets. So, a lot of people the things they’re scared of in foreign markets, particularly emerging markets are characteristics that often apply to governments, but corruption, whether these companies are squandering cash. So, you want an approach for a filter in my mind where you say, okay, we wrote a book on this, it’s free on our website, if you go to cambriainvestments.com or my blog called Global Value, but also shareholder yield. And so, this concept where you want stocks in say emerging markets that are generating cash flows. I know you love cash flows, but also distributing them to shareholders through whether it’s dividends or buybacks, but also that are trading cheap.
Meb Faber: So, we use a valuation composite and the last filter we use as a momentum swore. So, you get these factors that make a lot of sense to me where, hey, not only are they generating revenue, they’re returning it to shareholders so they’re not squandering it or just paying all that CEO’s an enormous amount of money, but they’re also cheap. And, the last momentum swore it means hopefully they’re going up as well. So, having a thoughtful approach gets you away from the market cap weighting. And the problem with market cap weighting, regardless of geography, is that you end up often without any tether to fundamentals whatsoever in a fun thing to look at. Research affiliates recently put out some research talking about this where, if you invest in the largest stocks in stock market index just based by market cap, they have horrible returns over the next decade.
Meb Faber: So, one of the easiest things you can do is just avoid the biggest ones in each country. And the funny thing is you look around the world, this changes every 10 years. But if you look at the largest 10 stocks in the world, of course it’s dominated by US companies now. But 10 years ago that list was different. 10 years prior to that, it was different. In the 1980s is dominated by Japanese stocks, et cetera. And so tilting towards thoughtful things keeps you out of, in my opinion, the really bad behaviors. So, people were scared of state-owned enterprises or other ideas but if you kind of check the boxes, the nudges, the behavioral inputs that say, no, I want to make sure this company is not only cheap but also behaving well. I think that’s a big first step.
Meb Faber: And then, if you’re really crazy like I am, our largest fund actually buys the 10 cheapest stock markets in the world and it does it in a diversified approach with also a value tilt. But that puts you in a lot of the places probably that you don’t want to be otherwise. And we mentioned places like Greece and Russia and Brazil that are probably hard to own individually but as a basket I think make a lot of sense and over we did a blog post called The Biggest Valuation Spread in 40 years, where versus the US these really cheap foreign markets are at the biggest discount in many cases, they’ve ever been.
Meb Faber: But the flip side, when we say 40 years was actually that the US was the really cheap market 40 years ago and most of the rest of the world was more expensive in particular Japan in the 1980s. So the times change, it’s not always the same. Sometimes the U S is cheaper, but right now I think there’s a great opportunity as you reflect over the next decade to certainly tilt towards the cheaper stuff. Most of which around the world is in across our borders.
Frank Curzio: It’s pretty cool that you said that too because when you look at ETFs, a lot of even with China, they cover the top 25 stocks in China. A lot of these ETFs are built around the largest components and I love that what you’re doing where, hey, those large stocks don’t always… The following year or years after, they usually underperform. Here’s a way to get into some of these small. Because it’s so hard, right? It’s so hard to buy individual stock that trades in Greece, it’s a small cap it… It’s very hard, not for you or me but for the average investor, it’s not easy. You have to open a special accounts, it’s a whole new thing. I don’t even think you could do that through an E-Trade, you could do it through international brokers and stuff like that. But, I love the fact how you see the problem and then here, these are the funds that you should focus on, here’s the stocks and this is how we generate alpha. So it’s a-
Meb Faber: And two of the bigger benefits of ETFs too that I think, are not appreciated, but are important. Certainly as the year winds down, a lot of people are thinking about taxes and tax loss harvesting, ETFs universally are a much better way for most people to manage their taxes of individual securities. And, on top of that we do this and most of the good guys do it, where if you do short lending on the portfolio, we also return all that revenue to the shareholders. And so, some cases there’s many ETFs out there and I can’t claim this because it’s inconsistent, it’s not always the same. But, theoretically you could have an ETF that charges 0.5% that actually returns 0.2/0.5 or even more in shortening lending revenue. And in all ways the comparison is actually reduces the management fee to zero or actually negative. And you see that in some of the high short lending place and that’s really hard for an individual to do, a lot of the short lending through brokerage accounts, it can be risky. But, for many in the institutions, it’s a pretty big benefit of the fund structure too.
Frank Curzio: So, I want to move on from ETFs because I want to talk to you about something personally that I’ve really been getting into. I’ve been trying to study as much as I can, it’s a very secretive industry. But, you’re a client, you have great contacts in our industry where you know a lot of hedge fund managers. I want to get you to take on algo-trading. So, algorithm trading where it controls more than 80% of the market right now, the computer trading on these exchanges. But the volatility that I’m seeing as someone who’s covered the market’s 25 years, where stocks would come down, they miss a quarter. I’m thinking they should come down 10/12% and they’ll fall by 25/30% and same the vice versa. If you’re looking at a stock that beats earnings, after mark be up 6/7%, I’ll see some of the, especially the small mid cap stocks, they’ll go up 25/30% where it’s just all this volume coming in at the same time, just bidding up.
Frank Curzio: It’s one of the things that scare me in this market because it’s something that we don’t see coming and we don’t know but I want to get your take on it, where you look at a Renaissance Technologies, you look at Two Sigma where a lot of these firms have not had you losing years. I mean, they’re not looking at fundamentals at all, right? They just basically going in training who could do it the quickest minutes of trades per second. What are your thoughts of this? Is it a risk and should I be worried? Should everyone be worried? Or is this something, hey, this is a new norm and just get used to it.
Meb Faber: I’d like to make a couple comments. The first is you mentioned Renaissance Technologies and there’s a great book called The Man Who Solved the Markets or something like that about, Jim Simons. And it’s a really thoughtful, wonderful book. I was actually on speaking with next to the speaker in Toronto recently and it’s a fun book about this quant and famous mathematician codebreaker, university professor. And it’s interesting because when you say quant or algo, it means a lot of different things. So on the extreme side, and sort of this high frequency trading, totally based on machine learning, genetic algorithms, whatever. On the far opposite side, you have something that’s just means rules-based. So, you have S&P 500, that’s a quant fund. You have someone who says, I do a 60/40 portfolio rebalance yearly, that’s a quant algos strategy. Just a very simple one.
Meb Faber: So, everything in between. And so, the fun thing about this book is it shows that despite being the best performing hedge fund of all time and it being based on kind of the more high frequency quant stuff, there’s still a very real human element. And it goes back to why this is so hard as an investor. I mean, it detailed a few times over the history of Simon is managing these funds where he was like, maybe we should change the systems or is it time to protect and short the stock market, all of these things. You’re like, you’re the most famous person ever that shows you’re not supposed to be doing this, why are you doing this? But, the emotions creep in and that’s what causes as we all know to behave very poorly and causes the fractures in our investment process.
Meb Faber: And so that having been said, going to your question of kind of how these strategies and funds can impact the market, I think one of the biggest and last pieces of alpha for the individual investor is actually timeframe. And so, the ability to have a long-term time horizon I think is not something to really be scoffed at. Where, if you look at an investor says, you know what? I’m investing for my retirement, I’m investing for my kids to go to college, I’m investing for, whatever goal may be, to buy a house. None of those are the next week, month, quarter, year, right? And so, if it is the next year, you should probably put money in CDs and just be done with it. And so most of what goes on under the surface of the ocean washing around, all these things going back and forth, most of us can hopefully successfully ignore.
Meb Faber: That having been said, do they cause distortions? Absolutely. But that’s always been the case with markets, in my opinion. And that’s based not just on particularly one style or what’s going on in the world right now if passive or indexes or ETFs, but it’s just always comes back to flows. And so, absolutely do flows change where that money is going to, of course. And that’s been true for a hundred years. So, all of a sudden if The Wall Street Journal published a piece about some railroad in the 1930s and every mom and pop went out… Or 1920s probably and decided to buy that railroad and moneys were flowing into that stock, of course it’s going to change that. But, that really has nothing to do with algos. And today, if everyone’s putting their money into, Meb’s Cambria fund that, hypothetically we don’t do this, that invests in Brazilian small cap tech companies. And you guys put in $50 billion into that fund, is that going to change the composition of that asset class? Absolutely.
Meb Faber: Same thing happens with gold, we saw it with certainly a lot of the flows in the crypto, in and out over the past couple of years. And so, really what you’re talking about in many ways is, just money sloshing around. Now as an investor, what can you do about that? Well, certainly the first thing you do is try to spend a lot of time putting yourself in a position to fail from these events. So, if we remember back to the flash crash a few years ago, I didn’t even get to experience the flash crash because I was still sleeping. I’m a West Coast quant, so I don’t even think I was awake, so I never even noticed it. But most people shouldn’t even be looking at kind of their strategies and allocations that much anyway. And so, it’s something to be aware of. I think it’s something to take advantage of.
Meb Faber: We’ve certainly, a good example, you probably remember this back in the days from the street, where there was a very simple arbitrage where you could take advantages of the indexes rebalancing. And the old Russell 2000 index rebalance to where the dirty secret of index investing as they publish their rules, you can front run those indices and papers have come out showing that, that’s a very real cost to index investors, where funds or more active traders front run those. But that’s a simple flows, again, a simple flows thing. If you know which 10 stocks are coming out and which are coming out, you can actually take advantage of the money flowing, and that’s just an algorithm. So, I think in the most part it’s nothing to be afraid of. I think it’s something to be aware of in particular to where you could potentially take advantage of it. But also, if you have a trading strategy that is susceptible to anything going wonky, be mindful of it. And so, but for most of us long-term perspective, it’s mainly a non-event and a potential opportunity.
Frank Curzio: It’s funny you mentioned that you missed a flash crash. I have to tell you an interesting story, because I know you know Tom Dyson. So, we actually went to The Player’s Championship and that’s when the flash crash happened. And so, we had to keep our phones in the car. It’s probably the first time in a good seven, eight years I didn’t have my on me or I had no access.
Frank Curzio: So, basically we were in there for, when did we got there whatever, seven in the morning and we wind up leaving at like six at night. And by the time we got out, we had got… It was Stansberry at the time and Brian Hunt, I mean we had 50 messages each at least. It was funny, market crash, you guys, where are you guys? Going to send alerts out. And then by the end it’s like, oh everything’s okay now. We kind of missed it too, which is great. We didn’t even hear about it while we’re there but by the time we got back to the car it was kind of funny, the flash crash. So, it’s funny that you said that you missed it because we kind of missed it as well.
Frank Curzio: But I wanted to end with this Meb. You have decided to start a podcast. You’ve been doing it for a while now and I just really gave you high praise, I lied, I’m kidding. I’m a big fan of yours. It’s one of the podcasts that I do listen to in the financial sector. Talk about what made you start the podcast and now today, what are the benefits you’re seeing? Because it was funny when I was doing this, where so many people like, why are you doing podcast for? It’s crazy. And the reason why I was able to start Curzio Research is because of the fan base that I have and how many people have listened to this podcast and it has built up contacts and networking and interviewing great people and learning so much. But, I want to see how it was for from your end because now your podcast is really… You’re getting a lot of my listeners getting more successful, the Meb Faber show is really cool.
Frank Curzio: I talk about that and is it addicting? Do you like it? Is it something that you never thought… More positives and negatives. I just wanted to hear your opinion on how you’ve been doing it for a while.
Meb Faber: Well, for two old goats like you and I who’ve been doing content for a while. The interesting part is, content in its married forms has been around forever. So, a lot of big multi-billion dollar, multi-hundred billion dollar investment businesses have been built upon the backs of other types of content. Back in the day it was radio or magazine articles, more recently, we started out with academic papers and then blog and then books also, with writing and other places like the street. And then more modern, that may be Twitter and the podcast. So really, just… It gives you a megaphone and a soapbox to which to spread your views in around the world for better or for worse. The difference is, back when we were writing academic papers, a decade ago, and we still… We’ve written a dozen, but the very first one you had to send to an academic journal and then you had to get comments and then you had to go to a committee.
Meb Faber: And that thing may not see the light of day for like three, four years and in the ensuing years now I can do a post, toss it up on Twitter and get feedback in like five minutes from, hundreds of thousands of people will very quickly tell you how much of an idiot you are or not. And that’s actually I think been really helpful. And I think that’s a positive in the sense that, there’s a lot of transparency and disinfectant of the internet. It can also be a very dark and terrible place as well. But, the podcast is just another extension of that.
Meb Faber: We did a recent post where we talked about… We looked at the US stock market as when it hits all time highs. Market only has two states, all time highs or in a drawdown, meaning it’s down from its all time high and in most markets spend the vast majority of their time in some form of a drawdown. It’s like two thirds of the time you’re in some form of drawdown from all time highs. And so we used to joke, we said that the phrase is you have to be a really good loser to be a good investor because you spend most of the time somewhere down from the peak, right? If you’re counting to hit a 100 grand and this month it’s at 90, you anchor to that high point, high watermark. Anyway, but the interesting part was that, markets actually have some of their best performance and lowest volatility when they’re at all time highs.
Meb Faber: And so you can devise strategies that say, hey, I’m going to invest in all time highs and otherwise I’m just going to sit in cash and bonds and it’s actually strangely a really good investing strategy. Anyway, that seems somewhat counter-intuitive. In the old days it would have taken me two years to get feedback on that. Now I throw it up on Twitter on the blog, did a segment of the podcast and got an immense amount of feedback all within the course of a week or two.
Meb Faber: The biggest benefit of the podcast by far, is the ability to pick up a phone chat with an old friend like you or even chat with totally new people and say, hey, that guy is doing some really interesting work. Whether it’s in mining or in sovereign bond research or investing in emerging market companies in Africa, whatever it may be, and say, I’d love to talk to them and 10 years ago if you just said, hey, you want to spend an hour on the phone together, people… Billion dollar fund manager, the chance to interview people… That you’re crazy. I don’t want to talk to you, don’t waste my time. But now, it’s a great platform, it’s fun. We’ve had a great time doing it. Probably experiment with some new ideas. I know you do a little more video than we do, which is something we’re going to try to put in the works in the next year as well at some point. So I’m going to have to hit you up for some suggestions.
Frank Curzio: Yeah. We’re not into video too much with the podcast doing other videos outside of the podcast, but that seems to be the big thing and the YouTube videos, which is weird, right? People just see someone talking to the microphone, I love it. I watch it on ESPN all the time. It’s a talk show I’m watching, but I… It’s weird that I would like that. But people just… Which is cool. You want to give the people what they want. But-
Meb Faber: We’ll have to start a Meb and Frank, Pardon the Interruption version.
Frank Curzio: PTI, still love that show. So let’s end with this Meb if you… If anyone wants to find out information, if they want to find your podcast, you have a blog that you write a value of great stories, how could they do that?
Meb Faber: Day job is fund manager at Cambria Funds or Cambria Investments. Most of the content is free. We mentioned the books, you can find at Meb Faber and Meb Faber on Twitter too.
Frank Curzio: That was pretty easy. That was pretty simple. Sometimes I give that plug to people and they go off for 25 minutes.
Meb Faber: No. I’m a easy person to find. You shoot me an email, love to hear from a Frank’s listeners anytime.
Frank Curzio: All right Meb. So listen, thanks so much for coming on. I always learn something new when I’m speaking to you. Always get some great ideas and I know how busy you are. So, I really appreciate the time and hopefully I see you soon, all right bud?
Meb Faber: It’s been great. Happy new year to you and all listeners.
Frank Curzio: All right, happy new year to you to buddy, I’ll talk to you soon. So great stuff from Meb, love having him on. You could see how detailed his research is, he always shares ideas, he travels a lot and I just love reading his stuff even on his blog because I’m always learning something new and just sharing research and stuff. He was asking me a lot about the STO industry last time I was on his podcast, it was really fantastic. So, just a really good source for me, a really good source for you and someone I trust in this industry and someone that I admire and someone that’s very good at his job. So, hopefully you enjoyed that interview. I say this all the time because sometimes I’ll enjoy the interview because I’m really deep into this industry. But, maybe that doesn’t transform into a good interview for my audience.
Frank Curzio: And I always say, this podcasts about you, it’s not about me. Let me know what you thought about Meb in that interview, it’s email@example.com. Now, let’s get to my educational segment. So, I’ve been telling you to buy stocks on pullbacks for around three to four years. But, it’s not going to be as easy as it was where you could just say Apple pulled back 10%/15% you look at last December, I mean most often market fell a little bit over 20% from September through December. I think it was one of the first 20% declines in many years. And, a lot of those stocks rebound. You could have basically throw a dart at the S&P 500, most of them, you would be up on, right? There’s a few of them that crash of course, but I would probably say about a good 75% of those stock would be higher and a good 20% on much higher, more than 50% higher. And when I’m telling you to buy a dips now, it’s going to be different because I’m not going to tell you to buy technology. Why?
Frank Curzio: I’m not here guessing and saying, hey, I have a feeling guys, I have a feeling. No, this is by crunching numbers, crunching the data, using my sources. This is what I’m seeing in the market, I’m going to help you guys get ahead of it. We’ve heard a couple of stories, Wall Street Journal wrote about it, a couple of other stories write about it, that value’s making a big comeback. That’s true and false. If you look at value, I’ll say why true and false because value depends on how you define it, right? And I’m going to go over that in a second as well. A lot of the growth that’s taken place, a lot of growing S&P 500, it’s been in these growth momentum names, technology. Technology has been the best performer by a mile and a lot of people just been piling on those momentum names and on the other side, which maybe you don’t see is, they’ve been shorting and just completely dumping anything that’s value related, anything.
Frank Curzio: So, if we look at last week alone, I’m going to share this data with you which is from Bank of America Merrill Lynch did the best because I track all of their client’s data, which is hundreds of billions of dollars in capital from several hundred hedge funds, money managers, and they’ve been doing this for many years. It’s not biased, it’s like, here, this is exactly what we’re seeing. These are the inflows and outflows, these are the sectors, this is what we’re seeing. They publish a report every single week. It’s something I read every week because it’s really cool. It gives me indication where the smart money’s going and you want to try to get ahead of that because you know the billions in capital come in after you got to be able to drive these stocks higher. Now, if we exclude buybacks, take them out. Just energy and material stocks.
Frank Curzio: Energy and material stock, right? These were two of 2019’s, this year’s biggest laggards. They saw inflows just those two sectors and tech stocks saw the biggest outflows. We’re also seeing inflows into financials, which is a deep value sector. Institutions have sold tech stocks for nine straight weeks and last week sales, last week alone, had money coming out, the outflows, it’s been the largest since May. And you can say, well, it makes sense, technology is good. How good? Well, technology sector is up 40% year to date. By far the best performer. Now, when you look at value ETFs, they saw inflows for the 12th consecutive week while growth ETFs saw outflows for the first time in seven weeks.
Frank Curzio: Now, when you’re looking at this trend, you go back even further. And I went back to around mid September ETF inflows have outpaced growth ETFs. So, you seeing more money going to value. So, to put it in perspective, year to date, and this is prior to last week, or which is last week, so growth ETFs, saw a three times the amount of net inflows compared to value ETFs, right? So, that’s year to date. But if you look at last two months, that trend is clearly changing and even go back three months value ETFs again saw inflows for the 12th consecutive week. You see more money go into value. So, if you’re looking at the smart money, I don’t know why they call this smart money but everybody calls it that, so I’ll call it that because it’s all what I’m talking about, which is the institutional money, so called smart money.
Frank Curzio: If you’re looking at where the smart mining is heading, it’s value. And it’s starting, it’s not done, it’s not even close to done, it’s in the first inning. And, why you seeing this? Because value stocks has never, they’ve never been this cheap compared to momentum stocks almost in history. It’s insane. I cover this stuff because even the Russell 2000 I mean it got… It was just some of the stocks in there, no news. I mean, I had at a stop on one of our stocks that I love so much, you guys know it, if you’re a subscriber. That I removed the stop and said, take the stop off of this because… And it fell tremendously and now that stock is bounced back probably I want to say 70% from its lows in the last three, four weeks.
Frank Curzio: I mean, there’s nothing fundamental had changed. These are just massive algorithms, programs, where you’re pushing tons of money into momentum and you’re just selling everything that’s value. And these value stocks have been pushed down tremendously. But if you look at, even from Bank of America, Merrill Lynch, their research, it shows that value has never been this cheap versus momentum. But, the data goes back to 2001 still, 20 years almost, 20 years. Now, the thing is, people believe they know what a value stock is and it could be defined in so many ways. A stock… Trading at discount to it’s peers, trading discount to the markets, a bank with the lowest price to book ratio. I mean, I can go on and on here. I’m going to make it simple for you. You’re going to hear this a lot, you just starting to hear, well value is making a play.
Frank Curzio: Forget about the word value. What I want you to look is. At the S&P 500 and look at the companies that got smoked. Stocks are down 25/30/50% from their highs, maybe the 18 month, two year highs, whatever. And this is after reporting consecutive bad quarters, they lowered guidance. So, you don’t have to look at value as a stock, Hey, let me find a lowest P/E stocks. You could do that but it’s not necessarily where the low P/E stocks, they’re trading a low P/E because the price would probably come down. But, I’m looking more at the stocks that really got smoked, that kind of also trade at low P/Es. So, a good example would be Stamps.com and this is a stock they trade over 250 in the summer in 2018, 250. Did it crash at reporting weak earnings for several quarters.
Frank Curzio: But, the massive drop came in February, right this year when a company lost a contract with the post office. Stamps.com caught under his guidance from, I think it was around $11 a shed, a 550 you never see that big of an earnings cut. And they didn’t really let anyone know, they didn’t warn. It was just kind of, hey, this is our earnings and the stock went from 200 to around 85. It was a massive drop. But the down turn, if you’re looking at algorithms and how they play this, they… It’s trend-following basically, right? So now they’ve seen this thing get crushed and they’re still piling on. And when you look what happened into May, I mean, did it deserve to be trading at 80, yeah probably they lost their biggest client. I get it, I see it. It’s not worth me looking at it saying, wow, where are they going to make up the difference or whatever. But here’s what’s interesting.
Frank Curzio: The downturn continued into May. So, from February to May, the stock fell from 80 to 33. You know where it is today? Back in 85. I mean, this is just one example of where you’re seeing companies, that have gone through trouble and every company goes through trouble, but the ones that do, they’re not just being sold, they’re being decimated, they’re being destroyed. And that’s leading… At least a lot of ideas for me in my newsletter, you see me purchasing stocks that are fantastic. I mean, another example is GE. You guys know my history with GE, I won’t go over it again, but seeing huge inflows. From 7 to 11 over the past 12 months. I’m going to bring up another name, Macy’s. I know you say Macy’s, Frank, please don’t do it.
Frank Curzio: I mean, this stock has been crushed. The industry is terrible, big box retail departments is going out of business. I even got to stop that as name and Curzio Venture, I thought it was a great buy at a certain price. Today it’s trading at six times forward earnings, just hear me out before you dismiss this, it’s trading at six times forward earnings. 0.7 times book, it’s generating 650 million in free cashflow, right? People think, oh, Macy’s is gonna go out of business. They generating 650 million free cash flow and they pay a 10% dividend. And so what, 10% dividend stock must’ve got smoked. It did. When you looked at numbers, the dividend amounts saw dollar 50 share earnings. The company’s generating over $3 a share in earnings, which it could continue to pay that dividend. Maybe they decide to cut it in half, which would be a smart decision.
Frank Curzio: The stock will probably go down 20/25% maybe get income funds that have invested in Macy’s. You have to get out there based on how the fund is mandated but that’s going to be a perfect opportunity, to buy something like this. Because it’s getting to the point where, and I hate using this term because whenever I hear it, I want to show it the stock. But if some parts valuations, when it comes to Macy’s, it’s the people who hate the stock the most think it should be trading 15% higher. I mean there’s sell ratings on the stock, what price targets above this? That’s how depressed it is, just using as an example. I mean, look at the energy sector. I mean, even the best names in this space are down 30% plus from their highs, Pioneer. Look at Devon Energy. Devon, it was 35, it’s 22. Let me tell you, Devon was another stock… It was an all portfolio, we stopped that. We’re doing well in both portfolios. I like covering my losers more than winners, if you don’t subscribe to my newsletters.
Frank Curzio: Devon is just an awesome company. I mean, it’s selling off the non core assets, taking that money, paying down their debt. They’re operating in one of the high profile areas we could drill for oil at the cheapest prices. It’s just a solid company that’s gotten destroyed. 35 versus 22, it trades at P/E 6. Diamondback was 110 five months ago, it’s below 80. And that’s how, I won’t curse here F-ing much people hate value stocks. Not only have they gotten crushed but it’s just another level of, whoa, let’s get the world out of these things. And they get destroyed. So, my advice is start at looking at the biggest performance in the S&P 500 this year.
Frank Curzio: You don’t want to buy all of them, that’s just starting point. And I can tell you probably don’t want to buy them maybe right now either. Even if you do find a lot of things that are positive since they’re likely to fall a little bit further since we do have tax loss selling almost every sector is trading at all time highs other than energy materials, big box retail. So, you might see some of these names that are down be sold to offset a lot of the gains that are made because again, a lot of stocks trading at 52 highs. But once you had the list, by the way, you could find it by doing a simple search in Google. See which companies insiders are buying. I mean that’s always a good sign, right? Where management steps up to buy shares when the stock is down. That’s always a good sign, that makes you look even further.
Frank Curzio: They look at 13Fs, which are the followings from hedge fund managers, equity money managers, anyone who owe over a hundred million in assets under management. They have to file all their holdings. What they… Basically disclose every stock they own in their portfolio every quarter, if they’re adding to possession, if they sold some of the shares in the possession, new possessions, find out. See… And I cover this. When it comes to 13Fs, some of the stocks that they’re buying. See what value stocks they are getting into. Especially if you have a value manager, a passive investor. Passive investor means it’s not like Bridgewater where they’re in a situation so much that 13F means absolutely nothing because it probably out of all the stocks I’ve been telling you. Because it’s published, two weeks after the close of their quarter.
Frank Curzio: But when you got… Just as extreme an icon or Buffett, those guys, they don’t take full possessions in stocks right away. They take possessions and usually add to them over time. Which again, that’s what you want to do. You don’t want to try to catch a falling knife. So, if you have insiders buying, that’s kind of a good signal where, hey, they think it’s a great value at that price. If you seen the biggest money managers in the world buying, hey, you know what? You have a floor. Especially if you’ve got these value managers coming in because they’re going to continue to buy even if it goes lower. And that’s what you want to do, you don’t want to try to catch a falling knife. Because, if you’re able to pick the right stocks and follow the system, because there is a massive push into depressed names and you have to do your homework on these. You could see incredible gains.
Frank Curzio: I mean, you don’t really need to see these companies go from totally negative to totally positive, no, absolutely not. I mean, all you want to see is these companies go from less bad to bad and you’re going to see these things pop 30/40% off their lows immediately. I’m talking about in a few weeks, and then if they can follow up with, hey, now earnings have turned, now the analysts who are covering the has got a turn. And then all of a sudden, this cheap garbage value name turns into a momentum name and it starts going higher. Now you’re talking about 100% plus gains and that’s when the fun starts. You know why? Because then all the guys in CNBC and the technical guys say, hey, you just broke out, you need to buy this stock. And it’s… You always love that when you have 200% of the stock and people telling you to buy it and now we opt you to sell.
Frank Curzio: So, you really want to use this strategy going into next year. You’re seeing just massive amount of money flow into value. That’s coming out of technology. This trend is just starting, it’s an early innings. And it’s the easiest way to make huge short term gains in the market. So, I want to try and get you guys ahead of the market where one’s going to be talking about this six months from now. But, if you’re looking… If you’re an investor and especially Curzio Venture Opportunities. We’ve seen a lot of small cap names surge over the past few months for us where some of them got hit because the Russell was just totally out of favor. And I don’t pitch that newsletter that often, but if you dig in subscribe in or been on the fence, get off the fence and subscribe. Because, I think we’re going to have a fantastic year in this portfolio.
Frank Curzio: With small caps, super depressed names, they’re going to make a huge comeback in 2020, I’d be done with a lot of work in the sector with already nailed a couple pretty good winners. And I’m pretty excited. And look, I don’t pitch that newsletter that often and I just… I try to pitch it at a time where you guys can make the most money. I just encourage you to venture opportunities and the stocks that I’m seeing, the small caps have gotten destroyed. You starting to see them turn and it’s going to result in a lot more gains for many of these positions that I have in the portfolio. So I’m pretty excited, very excited about it. So, I wanted to cover that sector for you. I wanted the educational segment, the educational segment is always about trying to get ahead of things, trying to teach you guys, here’s your opportunity. We’re in the first ending of this.
Frank Curzio: There’s evidence showing Bank of America with their data inflows and outflows, you’re seeing it. You’re seeing it now, you’ve been seeing it over the past few weeks, it’s going to continue. There’s a lot of great, amazing deals out there even though the market is trading at all time highs. Why? Because the highest market cap stocks, which are technology had been driving it higher and higher. Now you’re seeing money come out of these. Apple is still holding up well, Google is okay, Amazon is sold off a little bit, Facebook’s getting back up there, but you’re seeing money rotate out of these sectors or out of technology momentum names and they’re starting to find these really underpriced totally mispriced stocks. And you really want to be in them before that smart money comes in and you get to see more and more billions of dollars flow into its into Russell 2000 stocks.
Frank Curzio: You going to see a lot of small cap stocks that have good trading volume. This is the area that you should be looking at. This is the style of investing that you should be focusing on. It’s not momentum, it’s not growth. It’s, hey, let me find the stocks that got decimated, stocks now trading at lower P/Es and start analyzing those companies and believe you’re going to find a lot of great ideas and remember you don’t need these companies to turn around in three months. You just need them to stop the bleeding and these stocks are so super depressed, they’ll pop 30/40% off their lows once that happens. Guys, final note here, man, so happy to say is next week we’ll launch in Rich Suttmeier’s 2-Second Trader, it’s finally here. Team worked really hard to get this thing launched. I’m super excited because it’s going to be the first newsletter that I know in this industry that uses algo systems to make trades.
Frank Curzio: And even better Rich has agreed to put his system on our site. What does that mean? It means that you’ll be able to put your own stocks, just that symbol in the box and it’s going to tell you the trading levels around, where to buy and where to sell. It’s a scaled down version, of course, there’s a lot more that goes into the system, which is what you’re going to get from Rich, which weekly trades from all time. But really excited. I’ve been through this system for the past two months learning it and going through it and it is fantastic. It’s something that he’s been working on. He created from the past 30 years. I mean just, going back and looking at the markets and testing these things and re-testing and testing them again in order to determine future market, future predictions.
Frank Curzio: And this is Renaissance technologies, this is Bridgewater, these are the guys that don’t have losing quarters or losing years so often. They’ve made a fortune for investors. So, I’m really excited we’ve seen this system. If you haven’t seen it, go to Curzio Research for free, curzioresearch.com and you’ll look up Chart of the Week and just… I think there’s probably maybe seven, eight, nine, ten stories that Rich has written for us and just look at the performance of those stocks. And that was all based on a system, so I wanted that proof, that evidence. I wanted everybody to see it first before we launch this newsletter. I want to see demand. Demand has been overwhelming, getting tons of emails and for people looking forward to this newsletter. Finally, we’re launching next week. I’m very, very excited and if you’re interested in newsletter and you’re not on our mailing list, please go to curzioresearch.com, we have a box right in the middle of page. It says subscribe. It’s…
Frank Curzio: You going to get free stuff only you’re going to get our Weekly Breakdown, which is cool. You’re going to get our Token Tracker, which is cool. We’re going to let you know when our podcasts are up on iTunes, but most important is, that’s where you find the best deals and the biggest discounts for everyone who’s following me, my listeners, because I can tell you that the prices newsletter, we’re going to charge double for anyone that’s outside of our list and I know I will be able to get that price because that’s how I’m excited about this newsletter and it’s a one of a kind newsletter. So, for anyone that’s listening to podcast subscribers and stuff like that, of course you guys get the best deals. And that’s going to go on probably for the next two weeks into Christmas or just before Christmas.
Frank Curzio: So, if you’re interested, guys, seriously, go the website curzioresearch.com put your email in that box and you’ll get updates if you like what you see, you can subscribe, if not, don’t worry. But don’t just subscribe on your own because you’re going to see a price as twice as much for we’re selling it for them when you can get it through being a client of ours or listener or a follower. So, long podcast, lots of ideas, strategies. I want to thank Meb for coming on. So guys, that’s it for me. Thanks so much for listening. I’ll see you guys in seven days. Take care.
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