Over the last 12 months, the security token industry has seen some incredible growth… and it’s not slowing down anytime soon.
Juan Hernandez, founder and CEO of OpenFinance Network, is a true pioneer of this industry. He created the first-ever security token platform. Juan joins me today to share the story… and discuss where the security token industry is headed—from the regulation process to risk factors the industry faces [19:26].
There’s a lot of selling pressure going on in the markets right now. In my educational segment, I break down why this is happening… and give you a list of safe-haven names to ride out the storm [50:01].
Wall Street Unplugged | 682
A dozen safe-haven stocks for your retirement portfolio
Announcer: Wall Street Unplugged looks beyond the regular headlines heard on mainstream financial media to bring you unscripted interviews and breaking commentary, direct from Wall Street right to you on Main Street.
Frank Curzio: How’s it going up there? It’s August 14th. I’m Frank Curzio, this is Wall Street Unplugged podcast where I break down the headlines, and tell you what’s really moving these markets. Speaking of markets, doesn’t get more crazy than this. The news flow is awesome. The headlines and just crazy, and out there and the fact that they go viral so quickly.
Frank Curzio: Social Media and platforms, amid days where man, you had to call long distance, international, speak to clients. Now they can get information in seconds through the internet. The news flow and the headlines, aggressive, pretty nuts out there. Combine that with the hundreds of billions of active money being managed by firms using algorithms, and you know what you get? A shitload of volatility.
Frank Curzio: Well, starting with the news flow, which is all negative these days, which help push the markets down around, now 5% off the ties in the past few weeks. Well, you’re talking potentially new tariffs of Trump, which kind of surprised the market, the trade war with China escalates, massive slow down we’re seeing in global economies where central banks, for almost every developed emerging market, aggressively lowering rates right now. These rate cuts are supposed to help stimulate economies, which it’s done in the past, most of the time. But it’s also resulting in negative yields, where $15 trillion in government bonds have negative yields.
Frank Curzio: What does that mean? It means that governments are actually getting paid to borrow money. It’s crazy when you think about it. We have major protests in Hong Kong, where the local airport has been shut down for days due to massive protests. Yet not good for China, which China is kind of the world’s growth market, at least biggest growth market. Hasn’t been the last year with this tariff nonsense year and a half, but China is known for being the big growth market in the world. We have a negative yield curve, which means short-term treasury yields are trading higher than long-term treasury yields, which doesn’t make sense, not supposed to happen.
Frank Curzio: Essentially a 10 year was trading at 1.62% which is below the two year treasury note, which is yielding 1.63% as of today. And then you have all this historic stuff that they’re going to throw in there. Last time, this is probably the year we called [inaudible] was a December 2005 and that was about two years before we had the financial crisis, you know, but it’s a lot different. I mean, the credit crisis was caused, not by subprime loans, it was caused by leverage. People think subprime. Subprime wasn’t that big of a deal. But when you’re leveraging and creating synthetic of synthetic, of synthetic CTOs, off of these, off of real estate and pretending that they’re all safe, I mean, that’s what really, nobody knew how much leverage was in the market, but there was no leverage, just subprime, the market wouldn’t have got hit that much. Massive, massive, massive amount of leverage, you only need housing to go down 4 or 5% before you see massive defaults.
Frank Curzio: But it is a fact, the last time this part of the year current reverted was, you know, about two years before the financial crisis. And also when you look at research, The Credit Source came out with a report, which was pretty good. It said a recession occurs, on average, about 22 months after this type of inversion. So what does that lead to? Recession headlines everywhere, everywhere going crazy. You know what, that makes sense. It’s the indicator you should pay attention to, not the sole indicator, but for me maybe one of 20 I look at and I have to say, most are not signaling a recession in the US. We could have one, we could look at the data that could change in a month from now.
Frank Curzio: We see massive declines in consumer spending, and the housing market takes a turn for the worst, which you should be doing much, much better if the banks allow you to refinance, because interest rates, mortgage rates hitting record lows, which should spur house buying but affordability issues there. So you know, monitor it over the next few months, but right now the US, you looking at stocks, they’re not expensive. Stock trending is 16 times forward earnings, which is below around the 16.34 times average of the last five years. So we’re not, you know, if we fall another 10, 15% from here, it’s going to create amazing, amazing buying opportunities, and you’ll see a lot of money flowing to this market.
Frank Curzio: But when you’re seeing all this take place today, it’s creating unbelievable volatility. Unbelievable. And I don’t know if anyone’s really talking about this much. From my perspective, as someone that covers thousands of stocks, familiar with these names, love to, I’m not recommending 1,000 stocks, we probably have around 20 in each portfolio, 15, 20 in newsletters, but I love researching stocks. I love listening to conference calls. I love earnings seasons. It leads to tons of ideas for me, listening to what these guys are saying. And the volatility I’m seeing today I’ve never seen in my 25 year career. Not even close.
Frank Curzio: Take the amount of gold, for one. This is a mid-tier gold producer that was recommended in our all-star portfolio. This was in November 2018, so roughly nine, ten months ago. During this time we watched the stock right out of the gate go up 20%, then it fell down 10%, it was up 15, then it fell down again, and now it’s up more than 50% for us.
Frank Curzio: Now, I’m highlighting this stock because we, in All-Star Portfolio we usually have tight stops, right? Because we want to limit our losses, this is a trading newsletter where we have a brand new stock pick every single week, most of those come from our guests, which I interview on this podcast. It’s really awesome, getting lots of great ideas, and just vetting those ideas, seeing which ones we like the most and putting them out there for you. Newsletter’s doing well, getting lots of subscriptions of it. Pretty cool, original, you won’t see it anyplace else.
Frank Curzio: But we had a tight 15% stop on this thing, which we came a few pennies from stopping out. And we used the closing price. So a few pennies from stopping out, and then next thing you know, we’re up 55, close to 60% on the stock. And this is just one example. And this is gold, this is an industry that’s gotten crushed. Yeah, it’s been volatile, it’s been going down for so many years, now you’re finally seeing gold become a safe haven and people rushing into it, which makes sense here.
Frank Curzio: But this isn’t just the amount of gold. And when you’re looking at stops, I’ve encouraged using stops, I always suggest using stops because they limit your risk. It’s not a perfect system but it does protect you from huge losses. You want to maintain your capital, especially in a market like this. Say if it goes down another 10%, yeah you’re going to stop out, you’re going to have some losses, but you have cash, right? You have cash now. And say if the market continues to fall and falls even further, now you have cash, which is what the greatest investors do. They want to get in when prices are lower, during a string of times. Again, it’s not a perfect system, but it does work.
Frank Curzio: But if you’re using, say, 20% stop losses, which is common, some people use 25%, we use anywhere from 25 to 35, 35 we use for courage to do venture opportunities, because again it’s so volatile that if we use 20% stops in that newsletter, you’d get stopped out before you’re thesis even comes to fruition. For all the growth catalysts you highlight, all that stuff. But if you’re using 20% stops, which around a good number I’d say on average that people use, and trade is a little bit lower than that again, for more aggressive buy and hold would be a little bit higher, large caps is around 25%, then you probably stopped out a ton of stops in your portfolio. More than 20% of the Russell 3000, not the Russell 2000, the Russell 3000, all those stocks, have fallen more than 20% over the past three months.
Frank Curzio: It’s crazy. When you throw in the other risks like Brexit, further deterioration of European economies, just saying it’s crazy out there. North Korea, Mid East tensions, record high deficits, I have to tell you, it’s tough to buy and hold stocks right now. Take the average retiree, who usually doesn’t look at their monthly statements. And I know this because I’m getting calls from family members that are looking at their monthly statements. You’re supposed to be in conservative stocks, you know every couple months maybe you look every quarter or whatever, but now your monthly statements there’s so much volatility and you look at the fluctuation and the total value of their retirement accounts could be more than 5% every month, which is huge.
Frank Curzio: And this creates a lot of nervousness. And again, I get it, I understand. When you’re talking about people with very little working power, want to make sure their money is safe, secure, and what does that lead to? Well that’s the reason why you’re seeing safe haven assets like gold, bitcoin, treasuries. Your record low yields are seeing massive inflows right now. I wish I could say this is temporary, but it’s not. This is going to be the norm going forward, this huge volatility, and you’re even seeing it in some of the biggest names, the brand names out there.
Frank Curzio: If you’re looking at algorithms and these trading systems, they don’t care how much a company earns, how much they generate in sales, they don’t care who the CEO is or what technologies or innovations or growth the company will see over x amount of years. No. They’re looking at patterns. Able to see a lot of the orders being placed, the limit orders up front, being able to capitalize on these trends in milliseconds. That’s why you see companies during earnings season, the ones that miss, you’ll see you know down five, 7% on the average miss, and they’ll trade down five to 7% for the first couple of hours and next day you get a look at the end of the thing, they’re down 20%. They’re down 20%. 20% that’s how fast these funds are running out. Boom, I’m out I’m in, getting in, out, in, out.
Frank Curzio: Don’t look at the conference calls, don’t look at anything, just looking at trading patterns. You see the same companies who beat during earning season where the stock will be up like 5% only to close 15% higher by the close. People say, “Well that’s the shorts covering.” A lot of stocks don’t have massive short positions. Not talking about the Teslas and Netflix’s and stuff like that, but just, you know, average stocks are less than 5% of the float being shorter. Believe me, those moves are not being created. There’s just a lot of buying coming in because the patterns suggest, hey we can make three, 3% on this just on this stock. And that’s huge on these trades.
Frank Curzio: And now with so much liquidity out there with these large cap stocks, I mean we have a couple of stocks trading close to, you know, trillion dollar valuations. Microsoft, Amazon, in hundreds of billions could flow in and out of that stock in seconds. And you’re not really going to see it too much. You would, but you know, 100 billion or a little bit more than that, but you get my drift.
Frank Curzio: Like I said, this is going to be the norm going forward, which means there’s going to be a lot of tailwinds behind gold, bitcoin. I’m not going to argue which is better or worse. For some reason, people who buy gold hate bitcoin, and people that buy bitcoin hate gold. You’re allowed to own them both guys. It’s not either or. I love the fact that the gold guys have no idea what they’re talking about when it comes to bitcoin, and the bitcoin guys have no idea what they’re talking about when it comes to gold, but they just hate each other for some reason.
Frank Curzio: I’m invested in both asset classes. Again, not here to argue which is better or worse. You could do a Google search and find millions, millions of great posts of people that are just out there. But you’re looking at gold is up nicely on the year, as well as bitcoin, which is up around 200% this year. Again, treasuries as well. So people look for safe havens. So in this podcast, I want it to be special. Because you know about gold, about bitcoin. Yes, institutional money flowing into treasury, even in the negative yielding bonds, which is insane in some cases. But I wanted to go over a few more safe havens that I think are going to be better alternatives. Again, I’m invested in gold, I’m invested in bitcoin. But better alternatives than those two, and especially better than treasuries.
Frank Curzio: So one of them is the security token industry. You guys know I’m familiar with this, where lots new digital to carries a providing investors with above-average yields. You’re starting to see a lot of these things come out. I’m seeing them across my plate. They’re going to come out a lot more over the next year, two years, five years. But that’s a huge, appealing point for so many people where they are dying for yields and you’re seeing based on tokenizing real estate that they’re offering higher yields. Looking at some of the biggest bond people looking to get into this industry. A close friend of mine as well. Not that it’s a perfect safe haven that you can keep your money there, but it is an alternative. It’s an alternative.
Frank Curzio: And that’s why bitcoin is so valuable. People don’t talk about why bitcoin is so valuable, because it’s not linked to any other asset. If you look at the markets today, everything’s correlated. Everything, everything, all the equities. Yeah, you could say, “well small caps are not outperforming large caps,” but here you see industries. You see you try to create a portfolio that’s balanced and different industries and yet, you know, you’ve seen the market up 2%, down 3% and all these things getting hit around the same.
Frank Curzio: Yeah, you might get retail get hit a little bit more on tariff news and you know, banks get hit a little bit more when interest rates are lower because their net interest margins are not as wide. That’s how they make money. But overall, mostly everything’s correlated. You’re looking at ETFs that are not supposed to have stocks and they do, they’ll have Amazon in it or oil companies having maybe just different energy companies in there. To try to have strong returns. But almost everything is correlated. Bitcoin is not. You can own bitcoin and make money on it while the rest of the world crashes. You could say the same for gold. But that’s what makes bitcoin a really attractive asset. And you can’t really say that for gold. Gold prices yeah, not gold stocks. They get hit just like, that’s not the safe haven. Gold stocks are not the safe haven. You want proof of that? Look at a financial crisis. Every gold stock got destroyed. Gold prices held up, but the stocks got destroyed.
Frank Curzio: So this podcast, going to break down Sewell Turner’s… one is the security token industry, and the good news is you’re not going to hear it from me, I got a great interview coming up. Really great interview. Amazing guest. It’s funny because a lot of my friends and people who are invested in our token say, “Frank, you’re a pioneer in this industry. You were one of the first to launch this thing,” and we kind of were. First company in the financial publishing industry to launch a security token, and almost the very first company to launch a successful security token offering in general right? There’s not too many out there, but you’re seeing a lot more.
Frank Curzio: I truly, I’m not being modest here, I’m not worthy of that title. I just saw something that made a lot of sense based on my 25 years plus in the financial industry, and I went with my gut. I was nervous. I doubted myself for a few seconds, because you always worry about looking like an idiot, but now this industry’s starting to take off. Facebook launched one of the biggest security token offerings, they’re about to launch, if you look at their list of partners, it’s who’s who in the payment processing credit card industry. Andy Warhol, a lot of his paintings got tokenized, the late Andy Warhol.
Frank Curzio: An exchange in the EU, it’s called DX Exchange, that’s powered by Nasdaq, launched its own security token trading platform. That was in January. Again, Europe-based. And through this you could buy the top ten listed stocks on Nasdaq through this exchange using tokens. You could actually purchase Google, Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Netflix, Microsoft, which is pretty cool. You have tZERO just now, so anyone can trade security tokens on its platform. Accredited and non-accredited. We saw record amount of security token offerings the past six months.
Frank Curzio: I mean, pretty amazing stuff, but for me, one of the true pioneers in this industry is Juan Hernandez. He’s the founder and CEO of OpenFinance, which launched the first ever security token platform. You can go to that site, open up an account right now, and trade a list of security tokens. Any investor could do this. And you don’t have to be accredited. Juan was talking about this industry years ago. He launched his company around 2014. And the good news for you is Juan Hernandez is here. I’m about to interview him in a few. Definitely want to listen to this interview. He breaks down the entire security token industry, talking about how big this market could get, new game changing regulations that are going to help this growth market go mainstream even quicker, the institutional interests he’s seeing, since a lot of big companies looking to get into this space talk to Juan. They’re one of the industry leaders.
Frank Curzio: Please pay close attention, because it’s an industry that’s in its infancy. If you play it right, it’s going to be like buying Amazon, Microsoft, eBay, decades ago, when they first launched. So I love this industry as an alternative asset play, someplace to generate huge returns without having risk to equities or gold. Now in my education segment, I’m going to break down another great way, and this is especially for conservative investors, to generate market beating returns over the next two, three, four, five years. There’s a list of stocks that institutions are starting to pour tons of money in. In fact, it’s happening now.
Frank Curzio: Based on the latest 13Fs, those 13Fs come out every quarter, list the holdings of money management firms, I think it’s over a hundred million in assets, but whatever. But they have to disclose what they bought, what they sold, what they’re getting out of, whatever. If you’re seeing what they’re buying, a lot of these stocks are making that list. This is a trend I want you to get ahead of. Because I see this list of stocks trending much, much higher over the next 12 to 24 months, and it’s for one simple reason. A reason many experts love to talk about, but they never really offer any advice on how to take advantage of it. So in this special education segment, I’m going to show you how to take full advantage of the secular trend, and by the way this is not a positive trend but a negative one, and because the whole world is on board, these select stocks are certainly going to benefit. In all seriousness this is a must-listen-to educational segment for every single listener, every single investor. Definitely will result in you making some big changes to your current portfolio, and it’s going to include a list of at least a dozen stocks I’m going to give you that look incredibly attractive, and there’s a reason why. So definitely give this a listen.
Frank Curzio: Before we get to that, let’s get to the pioneer, the founder and CEO of OpenFinance Juan Hernandez. Juan Hernandez thanks so much for coming on Wall Street Unplugged.
Juan Hernandez: Great, thank you so much for having me Frank. I’m excited to chat.
Frank Curzio: No, I’m excited too, because there’s not a lot of people out there that know more than you when it comes to the security token market. And I’m being dead serious on that. I guess we’ll start out with what made you get into this industry? Because people say that I was early launching our CO token, but you went all in in this industry much faster than I did.
Juan Hernandez: Yeah, you know so our story starts back in 2014, mid-2014. That’s when the OpenFinance story starts. And so we actually got our start in the crowdfunding industry, if you will. So shortly after the passing of the JOBS Act of 2012, which as we all know, or we can do a quick refresh, opened up these types of investment opportunities to a much broader audience. We saw a market that was developing around crowdfunding and just a general democratization of finance, and we saw where the industry was going and really tried to identify what was that next friction point, that next hurdle that the industry had to overcome in order to really grow to its full potential.
Juan Hernandez: And we identified that as the issue of liquidity. That once you enter into one of these private securities, what happens when you need to get out in some fashion? And so that’s the problem we set about to target at the start of mid-2014. Worked in crowdfunded assets, other real estate instruments like non-listed reads, private equity, hedge funds, all sorts of esoteric alternative assets, and then started playing around, exploring blockchain at the end of 2016, as a mechanism for streamlining the clearing sentiment of these alternative assets.
Juan Hernandez: Obviously fast forward to 2017, 2018, the ICO ends up [inaudible] into an STO boom, and certainly we were well-positioned to be able to really help the industry grow and to foster a lot of the development of these new securities instruments that are new in kind of how they’re represented, either on chain or in a digital format, but at the end of the day are still securities under the covers, be they Reg D, Reg S, Reg A+, et cetera. So that’s kind of a little bit of, the thirty-second version if you will, of how we got here and where we are today.
Frank Curzio: So let’s talk about where we’re going in the future with this industry. Because we’re seeing a record amount of security tokens launched almost every passing quarter, but what are you hearing out there as someone who’s really tied into this industry, the institutions coming in, are you getting more calls about it because you’re one of the first to this market? What’s going on right now that has you so excited, where in the next two, three, five years this market could really take off?
Juan Hernandez: What we’re seeing a lot of now is a lot more bigger players start to really dip their toes into the water, if you will, and start talking about some kind of pilots or some sort of initiatives that they can run out through their internal channels to their board to get approval for proceeding forward with some sort of program in this area. And that to us is a signal of the level of familiarity and education within the broader industry right?
Juan Hernandez: That certainly last year or the year prior, there’s a lot of question marks, a lot of uncertainties. People are really asking themselves why, what is blockchain? How does it work? What does it do? And I think this year we’re past a lot of those basic questions and that people are now asking how? How do we leverage this new mechanism? How do we leverage these new methods of digitization to our advantage? And so that’s what we’re excited about.
Juan Hernandez: Over the next six to 12 months, we have visibility to a lot of new product, both at the retail level but also at the institutional level that we feel will really open up this market and kind of show folks who may have been on the sidelines are really a lot more what’s possible. And some of that is real estate instruments. I think we’ve all talked that real estate is a really ideal vehicle for this type of fractional ownership and the digitization process, so we’re seeing a lot of interest from real estate institutional players but also even private companies. We’re now starting to see venture-backed companies explore this mechanism in a way that makes it clear this is not just some sort of outlet of last resort. It now can become this mainstream mechanism to raise capital and to create these new types of opportunities.
Frank Curzio: Now why would people actually go this route? Obviously I know you know, because I’ve launched a token here in the industry, but say a private company, what’s the benefits of them going this route, which again, I’ve covered before, but I want to hear your thoughts on this, compared to going maybe a traditional route which is traditional product placement, or going through investment banks? What’s going to stop say, a large established company that’s a private company, maybe a billion dollar company, saying, “You know what? We’re going to go the security token route.”
Juan Hernandez: I’ll actually use, I’ll start with a real estate example I guess, right, because it’s the same concept of a company that typically does a system kind of real estate offering. They put together a PPM, they put together the offering material, they typically sell through, for example, the broker dealer or RIA network to gain access to the retail investors through that channel, and then it is, the instrument itself, is housed at some kind of transfer agent or a traditional brokerage house custodian.
Juan Hernandez: And so there’s typically a lot of intermediaries along the way and as a result of that, there’s a lot of fees that need to be paid. Because every person along the way needs to get paid for their participation in that process. And so a lot of what this technology enables is a streamlining a lot of those different activities. It doesn’t do away with them, certainly there’s always a need for those trusted parties to be involved in the transaction, but what it can do is it’s really streamlined and increased the type of distribution you can gain access to. And what that results in then for this real estate company, for example, is just a lower cost to capital. And that to us is really going to be the main driver on the institutional side for products such as real estate, hedge funds, private equity, et cetera, stuff that’s typically sold through the BDRIA network.
Juan Hernandez: Now on the consumer side, like a private company, the next Uber if you will, a lot of the same benefits apply in the sense of being able to gain greater access to distribution channels, lower cost to capital, et cetera. But now here you’ve got the added benefit of consumer engagement as well. Where you can now actively involve your user base, your fan base, incorporate some kind of marketing, sales efforts to really have your audience be able to participate in a lot of the activities of the company, be it if you can offer perks through the tokens, or if you enable some sort of membership levels with the tokens, and that’s where it really starts to get really interesting, in my opinion.
Juan Hernandez: And so, for example, recently two Reg A+ security tokens were approved for two companies called Blockstack and YouNow. And both of them are using the token as a way to boost customer engagement and as a critical part of their overall ecosystem to really start to really integrate a lot of their customers into their broader system. And so it’s a customer acquisition method, it’s a capital raising method, you really start to see a lot more versatility with the instrument when you start exploring those areas.
Frank Curzio: So that’s, you said Reg A for those two? Which was Blockstack and YouNow?
Juan Hernandez: Yes, yes and that’s Regulation A+ and this is sort of another byproduct of the JOBS Act that started in 2012 as a regulatory update to securities laws. And so Regulation A+ allows an issuer, a company that’s doing a capital raise, it allows them to take capital from non-accredited investors. Which is a really big deal in a sense-
Frank Curzio: It’s huge.
Juan Hernandez: Yeah, historically you’ve been limited to only accredited investors, and so these are typically higher net worth individuals, someone who’s making over $200,000 a year, or has a million net worth or more, and so it’s really blocked out a lot of retail investors from being able to participate in these types of investment opportunities. And so historically a retail investor just hasn’t been able to participate in, for example, Ubers. Pre-IPO deals. Pre-IPO investment rounds. And certainly the JOBS Act then opened up a lot of those opportunities to a broader audience and so Regulation A+ lets you solicit from non-accredited investors and you can raise up to $50 million with this instrument, so it’s really well-suited for this tokenization process, because you can really hit a wide swath of potential participants, both in the US and overseas as well. Because you can then also support international engagement.
Frank Curzio: Now I’ve been covering the capital markets for over 25 years, and you always see competition every single sector, industries, but when it comes to competition in this industry, say the Coinbase’s, tZEROs, Binance which is open on the US exchange, it seems like, and I may be totally wrong on this, but it seems like there’s almost like an agreement that hey, as this thing grows it’s going to be great for all of us, where you’re not seeing like hey, we’re better than you, we could do this, this is why we’re doing this…
Frank Curzio: Is there any truth to that? Because when I talk to all these guys, it seems like you’re all on the same page. Even when Binance got hacked, Coinbase wasn’t accepting, they were all kind of on the same side to figure things out, which is kind of rare because it’s so early in the industry, and I think all these players, including yourself, are just going to benefit tremendously as this issue gets bigger and bigger?
Juan Hernandez: Yeah absolutely. I think the big thing that we’re all pushing for is regulatory clarity. I think for all of us we believe there’s a big opportunity in this market. There’s obviously an opportunity to bring these types of investment products to a broader audience, really kind of build upon that democratization of finance movement that has been occurring over the last decade or so, and there is I believe a near-universal consensus that better regulatory clarity will help the industry grow tremendously.
Juan Hernandez: Right now there are a lot of question marks about how things can and cannot be done, and as a result of that a lot of larger institutional players are still sitting on the sidelines because they’re uncertain of how things can be done, what is allowed and what isn’t, and so that creates an environment where you don’t see a lot of participation from some of the bigger names. And so certainly all of those players you mentioned have a vested interest in this regulatory clarity, and certainly for us things around custody of these digital securities, and we’re still waiting on a little bit of clarification on that, but we know that’s a big deal, right.
Juan Hernandez: A lot of family offices or institutional funds simply cannot hold instruments if they’re not in some sort of qualified custodian setup, and so that becomes a big limiter and blocker for us. And so there is, I think, a very collaborative approach taken across the board of all the players in this market who want to see that guidance that the market can grow.
Frank Curzio: Now what would be the catalyst, Juan, that you would think, so let me frame this right. Because if you look at sports betting right, a big decision came out, Supreme Court they legalized it, and you see all these companies they all fight and jockey position, marijuana we can say the same thing. What do you think is going to be the big catalyst to where you’re going to see a mad rush into this industry? Because it’s so early you’re seeing companies come in, it’s great it’s getting bigger and bigger, but what’s going to be the block… Is it regulatory? Because like you said, custody’s a big deal, maybe financial reporting, or is it may be like Goldman Sachs saying, hey we’re launching our whatever, an exchange, or we’re going all in and something like that. But what is a catalyst you’re looking for to see like wow, this thing’s about to take off right now?
Juan Hernandez: I think certainly a precursor is that regulatory clarity. But I don’t think that, in and of itself, will be the catalyst. I think a catalyst will be let’s say someone like a Blackstone, for example, taking advantage of this avenue. And certainly that to us will sort of open up the floodgates, right? Because they certainly, large established name like that stepping in and exploring this option I think becomes something that really just sets the tone for the industry, right? It basically indicates that this is a viable mechanism for such a large player and if you want to keep up in a competitive market you need to adopt it as well. So that to us would be a catalyst.
Frank Curzio: Now let’s get into OpenFinance. So you launched, and this is the first security token platform, so congrats. That’s an amazing achievement.
Juan Hernandez: Thank you.
Frank Curzio: And in March you came out with news saying that we’re going to be opening up trading for third party digital securities US investors, making the first trading platform to do so. Then tZERO just came out with an announcement as well. Talk about how big of a deal that is because it’s not just like you mentioned before when we’re talking Reg A little bit, and I don’t want to get too regulatory with my audience here because I might lose them, but it’s important that the Reg D offering is going to allow accredited investors to get in, but after a year these things go free trading where anyone could really buy these things if they haven’t set a platform. That’s here and now. To me that’s a huge deal, that’s right? Go ahead.
Juan Hernandez: Absolutely, that is a big deal. Certainly these are opportunities that again traditional mom and pop investors like you and me, for example, would never have access to these types of opportunities. So now we’ve basically created an environment where, certainly there’s obviously always a lot of risk with any type of security investing, but private securities we strive to help the industry grow in its disclosures right, and the ability to have companies release quarterly financials, so that’s a big thing we’re pushing for as well.
Juan Hernandez: And all of that I think creates this environment where these mom and pop retail investors have enough information and knowledge at their disposal where they can make informed decisions and now they have these new investment opportunities that they’re able to gain access to. Either on our platform or someone else’s platform, and again that’s just something that’s unprecedented. Even the fact that there’s a secondary market for these types of instruments never mind the fact that it’s open to non-accredited investors, even that alone in and of itself is very unprecedented.
Juan Hernandez: The fact that someone who invested in a venture capital fund could get out of that instrument one year later at or near NAV value is unprecedented. So it’s a progression and some really new, exciting developments that keep occurring as we’re able to leverage this technology in a way that transforms how private securities operate and how people invest in these types of alternative assets.
Frank Curzio: Now if somebody wants to trade these securities, walk them through that process of going through OpenFinance to do it. Of course they can do so other platforms, but you’re OpenFinance, how would they do this? Is it a difficult process? Explain that to everybody out there.
Juan Hernandez: Sure. It’s very similar to signing up for a brokerage account with say, eTrade or something like that. You go to our platform OpenFinance.io, you walk through what we call the “investor passport process” which is effectively just collecting a lot of the AML KYC-type information, so name, phone number, address, other items like that. And it’s very straightforward.
Juan Hernandez: We’re typically able to see our customers go through it in just a matter of minutes. You have to upload a couple of documents to verify identity, but then after that, once you’re approved on the platform, then you can start to explore the different investment opportunities on the platform. So typically you’re able to go to our trade screen, pull a drop down and see the available assets that are available to you, and then after that it operates very much like you would expect an exchange platform to operate, meaning there’s a full-blown order book on display, charts, charting mechanisms, order forms, et cetera.
Juan Hernandez: So it should be very familiar to most participants who have either played around with public equities or other types of instruments.
Frank Curzio: Thanks for sharing that too, because I know a lot of people are not on the platform, they’re starting to go to the platform and they just pretty much need a little bit of direction, so I appreciate that. Now I know that you travel a lot and I hear this also from Jamie at Securitize, which I know you’re partners with, and you guys seem to go into international markets a lot. Could you talk about the global markets when it comes to security tokens?
Frank Curzio: Because it seems like, to me, not that they’re against it, but the US you’re going to have more regulation and more regulation the guys globally, I think they don’t like disclosing a lot of stuff. You know, less regulation but at the end of the day you need to know your money is safe right? So are they willing to come over, because there’s a lot of money and a lot of people putting money into so many different issues, utility tokens, with no financials, no nothing, no investor checks. What are you hearing from there in terms of the security token market and how big could the market get globally, and will that transfer over to you into the US markets?
Juan Hernandez: At a global level, in different jurisdictions we’re seeing movement in the sense of new guidelines are being passed in different jurisdictions. So Japan, for example, just passed a new STO framework that should take effect early next year. Korea, Singapore, Europe they’re updating some of their standards as well to account for some of these new mechanisms that are at play now with the blockchain and tokenization aspects. So some might argue that the US is kind of lagging behind some of these other countries in terms of updates or refreshes to the frameworks.
Juan Hernandez: Certainly for us we feel that the US securities framework has a lot of, it’s been tried and tested and true, and certainly there’s a lot of case law around that’s sort of, for us, we see it as one of the more clearer securities frameworks worldwide. Obviously we would always want to see more guidance around custody and other aspects, but to your point I think a lot of what this technology’s enabling on a global level is it’s really reducing the barrier in between being able to invest in instruments from other jurisdictions and so certainly even before any of our efforts, even before blockchain tokenization, there’s always been a big appetite from international investors for direct access to, for example, US real estate product.
Juan Hernandez: Everything we’ve been working on with technology has actually made it easier for someone say, from an Asian market to be able to gain direct access to high quality institutional level real estate and so in that regard certainly we’re seeing a lot of interest overseas for participation in those types of offerings. Because it’s certainly something, again, the underlying offering is very sound and strong and very desirable, and it acknowledges just facilitating, making it easier for investors to participate in it. So I think it’s so early days, we’ll see how the different jurisdictional frameworks play out, but I think all things being equal I think there’s always a healthy appetite for US asset-backed securities and I think it will remain that way for some time.
Frank Curzio: Okay now for the fun stuff, the last few questions here. So we’re just going through this industry and so serious about it because we’re so excited about it, but as you know I just closed, or we just closed I should say, a cursory equity owners offering-[crosstalk 00:41:10]
Juan Hernandez: Congratulations.
Frank Curzio: Thank you, thank you so much.
Juan Hernandez: And I believe you worked with one of our partners, Securitize, on that offering.
Frank Curzio: Which is a great experience and now that we closed, over a year from now then we can go free trading, and we’re looking to go on exchanges. So because of regulatory and stuff, we’ll make it simple. Pretend it’s somebody else that just closed their token offering, and now they have, in a year from now, it’s going to go free trading, if they want to go to your exchange and trade on your exchange, talk us through that process. Because the goal here is for anyone is, you want more liquidities so you want to trade on the biggest and best exchanges, which yours is one of them, how would one do that and approach you, and what’s the process? Because it’s not hey, I’ll write you a check. You go through a pretty crazy process to make sure everything’s like perfect, don’t you?
Juan Hernandez: Yeah absolutely. And I’ll just try, a quick point of clarification. We are actually an ATS, an alternative trading system, and not an exchange. And so that’s how we’re licensed and set up here as a trading platform, so just wanted to clarify that one quickly, just terminology-wise.
Juan Hernandez: And so the process of getting listed on our ATS certainly we go through a due diligence process. There’s about a 20 point checklist that members of our issuer onboarding team can assist anyone who’s listening who wants to come reach out to us, and so it’s not a very onerous list in my opinion, but what it does is looks for a lot of baseline requirements that we need to ensure are in place before we can start the process of trying to onboard a new instrument onto our ATS.
Juan Hernandez: That includes things like the PPM, offering memorandum, latest financials, information on the owners, attestations on AML KYC accreditation, et cetera. It’s more just a checklist, if you will, that we’ve put in place in order to ascertain that the offering was done in a compliant way, that there are proper provisions in place around, for example, waiving right of first refusal for example, if that’s needed with the instrument. And then just other safety checks, if you will, around the offering and the team behind it.
Juan Hernandez: And then after that, certainly it’s a pretty straightforward process thereafter to ensure that we’re able to compliantly load up these new assets onto the platform and make them available for traders.
Frank Curzio: Now I did my due diligence, I decided to go with Securitize. And by going to Securitize they provide all this stuff for you, which I guess would make it so much easier for you, right? So if [crosstalk] Securitize came to you, and I guess my question to you, is it important for someone to do this, to go I think it’s Polymath as well, is really to go through these services that do all these checks, and is it right to say that it makes sense for you to partner with these guys, because it’s a lot easier to get on your exchange once all these checks are done, I can imagine?
Juan Hernandez: Yeah absolutely. We do strongly recommend that issuers work with one of our select partners, certainly we list them all on our website, and a lot of it is just, as you noted, a lot of just ensuring that you’re doing all the basic block and tackle type elements. We don’t want any of our checklist items to be gotchas for teams later, after they’ve done their issuance and they’re like, “Oh we didn’t know we had to do number 19, how come no one told me this,” so we actually publish our guidelines on our website, we work with partners like Securitize and others who can assist the issuers with this process so there’s no gotchas or surprises, and so that things are done correctly and in a compliant fashion so that, quite frankly the issuer, like yourself Frank, don’t have to worry about some of those underlying elements. And you guys can focus on what you do best, which is obviously running your business and raising capital for it. So we do recommend that we are able to work with issuers who don’t work with one of our partners, but it is our strong preference that they do.
Frank Curzio: All right last question here, of course, going to be the hardest. What have you seen, is there anything that you could point to over the past two to three months that happened in this industry that you’re like, “Wow, this thing is here and this thing is going to take off.” Have you seen anything? Because it seems like every month that passes, there’s amazing news that even blows my mind [crosstalk] like security tokens, stuff like that. But is that anything you’re like whoa this thing is really, we’re here and this thing is here and it’s going to really take off?
Juan Hernandez: Libra was big because obviously it just kind of brought it to just the everyday conversation. There were so many people talking about it at that time I think it just for a whole industry it just kind of moved things forward. Whether or not they’re actually able to get there and go live, I think hopefully they can in some fashion, but it really just kind of moved it forward across the board.
Juan Hernandez: I would say when I look, for example Euronext out of Europe they invested and partnered with a firm over there in Europe that does helps companies do tokenization, I think as I see more and more of those types of partnerships, where large massive established player partners with a small startup to do tokenization or digitization, digital securities, any of those activities, I think that to me is really stuff that just kind of again keeps incrementally advancing the industry and kind of bridging that gap between where these smaller upstarts are and where the larger, traditional incumbents live. Because that to me I think is going to be ultimately what is needed to really help this become mainstream so that any issuer can take advantage of it.
Juan Hernandez: So that’s just one example. There’s some other ones. Certainly in Australia I know that the ASX has been running initiatives with blockchain and securitization there so just things like that help to further validate where the market is headed.
Frank Curzio: It’s great stuff. And Juan we’ll leave it there. We usually like to keep these interviews to 20 minutes but I just enjoyed it, going into the industry. They hear it from me all the time but it’s nice to hear from an outside source, which is really cool. So I know how much you travel, I know how busy you are, so I just want to say thank you for coming on the show, I really appreciate it.
Juan Hernandez: Absolutely, thank you so much Frank.
Frank Curzio: I love Juan. He truly is a pioneer in this industry. It’s nice to see his hard work is paying off. This is great news for us. Currency research, I mean the fact that we’re so early into this trend, we launched our own token called Curzio Equity Owners, which will go free trading in July 2020. The fact that we have an established company that we did this through, a good brand, generating millions in revenue.
Frank Curzio: The biggest players in this industry are reaching out to us. And we’re partnered with Securitize, one of the biggest in the industry, to launch this token, make sure we’re all compliant. It’s a great great great company. And they called us and said, hey you know what, we want to do a case study using our token, our experience, and write this whole thing up, which will be marketed to everyone who calls them to launch their own security tokens. Now think about that for a minute. And not even that, but talking to tZERO personally, numerous industry experts reaching out to us, the cream of the crop in this industry.
Frank Curzio: And it’s putting us in a place to be a premier player in this industry, security tokens. We’re going to get access to new ideas, speaking at top deal security conferences, partnering with the best names in the industry, so really really cool stuff that might encourage you equity owners, investors, will have access to, and also our subscribers to our crypto-intelligence newsletter will have access to. Some really cool stuff in this industry. Again trying to find alternatives for you guys outside of those safe havens, outside I get from retirees, so many questions, income generating could you start income generating newsletter, you want safe havens, okay. That’s what this educational segment’s going to be about.
Frank Curzio: And by the way, I love that interview, Juan, I know we kind of went into regulation and stuff like that. We need to cover things like that. I want you to be familiar with the whole industry. Sometimes it’s going to be a little boring. Just look for ideas, but this podcast is about you, not about me. Let me know what you thought at email@example.com.
Frank Curzio: Now, let’s move to educational segment. I mentioned earlier $15 trillion in government bonds, trending at negative yields. Put that in perspective it’s 25% of the market. 25% of the market. Which means governments are actually getting paid to borrow money. So this is pretty crazy on the surface, but when you take a step back, what this does this actually mean? It means more and more institutions, people, investors, are becoming increasingly desperate to find a safe haven for their wealth. So much so that we’d earn a little bit of a negative yield. You could turn to gold, you could turn to bitcoin, you could bury your money in the backyard, whatever floats your boat. Whatever’s a safe haven to you.
Frank Curzio: But in the trend that’s pretty scary now, and it’s not going to stop. You’re familiar with it. I know you’re familiar with it, it’s talked about a lot, you’re just not hearing people talk about how you can take advantage of it. And this trend’s causing money to flow into government bonds, despite having negative yields. And that trend is a race to every central bank to lower short-term rates the fastest. Because most of the world, they’re seeing a massive slowdown in their economies. The easiest way to try to stimulate the economy is lowering rates.
Frank Curzio: But if you want to put this part in perspective, India, New Zealand, Thailand, Netherlands, recently cut rates. Australia, rates are at record lows. Germany, 30 year bonds turned negative for the first time ever. Hong Kong lowered rates. Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Brazil, Turkey, Paraguay, South Africa, Ukraine, South Korea, Pakistan, Serbia, Chile, I can keep going and going and going. 35 countries in total lowered rates just last month. Just last month. Again, in an effort to stimulate their economy, since lower rates usually result in more borrowing, thus more spending from consumers on houses, cars, furniture, clothes, everything.
Frank Curzio: You could have a lot of fun, read articles from some crazy whatever, liberals sometimes can get out there, end-of-the-world guys, you say hey you better be careful, buy a bunker, find a cave to live in, buy guns, buy ammo, expect riots in the street. I mean, I’ve read it all. Newsletter industry. Banks are going to close, you’re going to lose all of your assets, ATMs will stop working, get your money out of the US now, just hear so much of this. And a lot of it’s all BS. I mean, you want proof? Every person telling you that is selling you something. They really don’t give a shit about you. They only give a shit about themselves. They want you to spend money on their services. The best way to convince you is to scare the crap out of you. Simple. Marketing 101.
Frank Curzio: But let’s come back down to the real world for a minute. You could do that by asking yourself one question: How can I make money off this trend of all develop emerging markets, all these countries, all the central banks lowering rates, going to continue, how do you make money off this trend?
Frank Curzio: Because if you asked yourself this question in 2010, right after the credit crisis, you would’ve ignored all the BS about how banks stole taxpayers’ money to get bailed out, it’s true. How these guys never got punished, which was true. How they became rich taking on huge risks with our money, all true. Again, the emotions got involved, yes I worked on Wall Street. I hated it. Everybody hated it. You can go to complain and go on social media networks, whatever.
Frank Curzio: But if you took a step back and just asked how do I make money off this? You’re going to realize that every asset was about to surge in value. All the bad debt in America, the balance sheets, banks, they were being backstopped. The fed lowered short-term rates to zero, which basically means there was little risk to owning assets in 2010. After the bailout. I’m talking stocks, houses, art, collectibles. Everything surged in value. If you took the emotions out and said okay how do I make money off this, you could still go on social media and hate and hold up signs in front of buildings, whatever you want to do, do. I’m talking about making money here.
Frank Curzio: That’s my job, to try to help you guys become better investors. So ask yourself how can you make money from the current trend of basically every central bank lowering rates at the same time? It’s finding high yielding securities. And by high yield, I’m talking about more than 3%, 4%. If you can find a 4% risk free return after inflation, you would probably see 15 trillion of inflows into your money management firm, right, since that’s how much is in the negative yielding bonds right now.
Frank Curzio: So your job should be to find a 4% return with as little risk as possible. As little risk as possible. And to do that, one of the best places to turn, believe it or not, is US equities. I’m not talking about the whole market here. I’m talking about select names, few names. Because you have a lot of names right now yielding more than 4%. I have found some of these companies, industry leaders, and they’re also trending at dirt cheap valuations.
Frank Curzio: Start with AT&T. We’ve heard the negative on it right, I’ve covered it numerous times here, why I like it it’s the biggest holding in my portfolio I believe. One of the biggest, if not the biggest in my conservative portfolio. Everyone’s saying they have two hundred billion in debt, and highest indebted company. They don’t talk about the 26 to 30 billion free cash flow the company’s going to be generating going forward. Yeah the growth that they’re seeing, they’re getting into a great market, but AT&T again, a favorite of mine, I’m not bringing this up, there’s a point here. AT&T still trades 10 times below forward earnings. And it’s yielding more than 5% and that dividend is safe. That dividend’s safe.
Frank Curzio: And people thought I was crazy to recommend this stock. I’ve told you numerous times why I like it. And you know what? It’s one of the few stocks in this market that are trending at a 52 week high. And you know what a lot of that has to do with is its dividend. Again, which is safe and easily covered by earnings and the 26 billion in free cash flow the company’s going to generate this year, and probably every year going forward.
Frank Curzio: When I ran a screen of companies on the S&P 500, and I’m talking about companies that are paying more than a 4% yield, 71 names came up. So close to 15% of the S&P 500. Doesn’t mean you rush in and buy those 71 names right? We know some of those are garbage, a lot of those yields are high because the stock has crashed for some reason, maybe they’re lowering earnings, maybe they’re going through tons of headwinds, whatever it is. So let’s go a little further here. Because out of those 71, I wanted to find out which names are trading below 12 times forward earnings. The market trades at 16 times forward earnings right now. It’s a pretty big discount to the market. And you know what? I came up with 40 names. Now here’s some of the names on this list. Get a pen and paper out, listen to this, whatever you have to do. It’s important. Trust me. I’m trying to make you guys money.
Frank Curzio: Molson Coors, symbol TAP. Verizon, VZ. International Paper. Those are trading around 11 times forward earnings. AT&T. IBM. Altria. KeyCorp. Wells Fargo. AbbVie. InvesCo. Coal America. Carnival. Those names are all trading below 10 times forward earnings. And they all pay more than a 4% yield. And a lot of them are expected to grow earnings annually over the next couple of years.
Frank Curzio: There’s also a lot of retail names on this list, but with terrorists on the news on a daily basis, and I talked about volatility earlier, it’s impacting this industry. So you don’t want the huge volatility that’s normally associated with some of the names on the list were Gap, L Brands, Hanes brands, Tapestry, avoid those. Again we’re doing this to try to lower your volatility to have a high yield in an environment that’s providing zero yield for most people. But you’re looking at a lot of good companies. Think about it AT&T 52 week high. A lot of these names are going to go higher. The money has to flow someplace in order for these guys to generate fees they have to put the money to work. They’re not going to sit in cash and say hey we’re going to sit in cash because if they do, as an investor, you’re like there’s no way I’m paying for you to sit in cash, give me my money back.
Frank Curzio: So where’s it going to flow? Continue to flow into government bonds with a negative yield? Doubt it. Gold? Yeah. You’re invested in gold, you should be invested in gold. I’ve had numerous CEOs come on this and talk about gold. And talk about silver. Numerous. You should be invested. I’m invested. I have at least 10% of my assets in gold. You’re seeing money, aggressive money, kind of going to bitcoin, might be a little bit too aggressive people. But still it is an alternative. But of those names, take a close look at them. I’d be doing my homework on them now.
Frank Curzio: In fact one name, and I didn’t mention here, has a 5% yield, they’re growing earnings faster than the overall market, and it’s invested billions, billions, over the past five years into technology such as AI, IoT, data analytics, battery technology, and these investments are really starting to pay off based on the last two quarters. The reason why I’m not giving it to you? Because it’s my recommendation in Curzio Research Advisory. So you’re a subscriber to that newsletter, you’re going to get that pick later on. We publish later on today. If you listen to this after six, seven PM, it should be published by then.
Frank Curzio: When you first look at the stock I’m recommending, you may throw up in your mouth. Just read the issue first, when you see the stock you’ll be like, “Whoa, really?” But just read the issue. Trust me. You’re going to find out why this is an old school, boring company, once old school, boring company. It’s probably going to be one of the biggest winners in your portfolio in the next few years. Just read the issue. I love it, because you’re going to read it and say I’m crazy and when you read the issue then I want to… I didn’t know, digging into this over the past week, I didn’t know how many investments this company made in so many great startups. And it’s not being valued at anything from southside analysts. Almost zero value is being placed on these investments. And they’re starting to come to fruition, and it’s amazing.
Frank Curzio: Getting back to the point here, the whole world is crazing yield. It’s difficult to find, central banks around the world, what are they doing? They’re all lowering rates. And you know what? It’s a trend that’s not going to change anytime soon. No way. So one alternative is to purchase high yielding equities. But you want to make sure that they’re cheap and they’re industry leaders. So I’ve given you pretty close to a dozen there, already invested in several in my portfolio. Buy these under recommendation, I believe some of them, I think two or three of them on the recommendation of my portfolios, but start to look at these names. Start to do your research. You can even go down to a 3% yield.
Frank Curzio: Because looking at the 13Fs, which are being released now, showing which positions a top money manager buying, selling, not just the top but all money managers, are buying and selling every quarter. You’re seeing money flowing into those stocks. And it make sense. And this so-called smart money, right, is definitely shifting towards those names, which I truly believe that they offer a better option, as a safe haven, then putting your money in a lot of other areas. Probably a better safe haven than bitcoin. Gold, I don’t know. I mean the trend for goal and the tailwind behind gold right now with all the central banks lowering rates is fantastic. We have exposure to gold in our newsletters. I bring on CEOs and that’s great, but you don’t want to put everything in gold. You want to spread it out through different investments that aren’t really correlated to the market as much.
Frank Curzio: And these companies are not going to be as correlated to the market. Very low betas. If you look at the range with AT&T it’s like seven points maybe, 26 to 34 over the past year. I mean you’re not going to see massive fluctuations, which is what you want right, as a retiree. Hey I need to generate income, we all do, I want to do it in a safe way where I don’t have to look at my monthly statement every single month, and this huge volatility. If you look at those and see those as risks, hey you know what these high yielding equities are a good place to get into.
Frank Curzio: And be careful. It doesn’t mean get into consumer staples and businesses that are seeing slower growth, their earnings are declining year over year, be careful because the yield means nothing, if you have a 5, 6, 7% yield but the stock’s down 20% the yield’s meaningless. You want to make sure you’re invested in good companies that are growing earnings, that are investing in innovation.
Frank Curzio: IBM’s a great name on that list. Their Red Hat acquisition was amazing. Integrated right away. You’re going to see a company benefit tremendously going forward. Is it going to be volatile? Yeah, it’s going to be a little volatile with the markets, but 5% plus yield. Yield’s easily covered by earnings and cash flow. These guys are going to start seeing huge increase in earnings, sales are going to change that trajectory of going down all the time. It’s an amazing acquisition, but that’s a company that looks very, very attractive in this market, as well as a lot of the other names that I gave you. IBM I vetted, I researched, in our newsletter. We’re up on it. That’s why I’m giving it away.
Frank Curzio: Recommended another one, CRA, but start doing your research on those names. That provides a nice safe haven for you and it’s going to offer you strong returns. You’re not sitting there generating one and half, two percent, which is basically zero after inflation. You want to invest in good names and remember the stock market is not expensive. It’s not cheap, but it’s not expensive. So as we go down, these companies are already trading below 10 times forward earnings. If we go down further, it’s going to be eight, seven, eventually you’re going to be like whoa, this is no joke we’ve got to buy these things. Trading at such a huge discount to the markets.
Frank Curzio: So when I look at this, and the scenarios that I pose to you, again security tokens are a little but more risky, hope you liked that interview with Juan, but if you’re looking at those high dividend names, hopefully you wrote them down, if not listen to the podcast, there’s a rewind button on it. People always ask, “Frank, what was that symbol you said?” Just rewind it. It’s like there’s new technology, you can hit rewind. On iTunes or whatever. So make sure you write down all those names, start researching. Trust me, you’ll thank me a couple years from now, but that’s a great place to start, especially if you’re looking for a safe haven in a market that’s going to see incredible, incredible volatility. It’s going to get worse and worse due to so much algorithms out there. That’s the place where you can get low volatility, good returns, and a safe haven from a lot of the risks that you’re seeing in the marketplace.
Frank Curzio: So quick note before I go. If you’re interested in signing up to Curzio Research Advisory, because I’m getting a lot of questions on it, it’s a newsletter I provide at a real cheap price for, it’s always less than a hundred dollars a year for a subscription, and it’s low because I want a lot of you to be able to get access to quality research, good ideas where every report…
Frank Curzio: I write this newsletter personally, every recommendation is 10 to 12 pages, you’re going to learn something every single time. Why we like the stock, of course I’m not going to be right every single time, but I’ve been right more than I’ve been wrong, that’s why I do this for a living, for over 25 years. But it’ll provide you an education, it’ll provide you the way you’re really supposed to research stocks. Again, you’re not going to see that deep of research in the newsletter industry. I know because I’ve been in this industry for a long time and I see some of the recommendations that are two, three pages. No, this is detailed analysis also highlighting the risks as well as the rewards, stop losses, buy up to prices, again you can have that for a cheap price and we do have newsletters that are much more expensive than that, but I’ve always kept the price that low this way more and more people could get access to quality research. It’s the least I could do since all you guys have been listening to the podcast for so long.
Frank Curzio: If you’re interested, just go to our website, www.curzioresearch.com, you can sign up there. If not no worries, but again I did want to mention this since I’m getting lots of questions from you about how to sign up for CRA.
Frank Curzio: So guys, that’s it for me. Hope you enjoyed the podcast. Thanks so much for listening, and I’ll see you guys in seven days. Take care.
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