Frank Curzio 00:00

Hey guys, I have a great interview coming up with Ivan Bebek, who’s the co-founder, chair, CEO of Coppernico. Symbol is COPR and a TSX, and of course a lot of TSX, they want the U.S. exposure, so that’s Symbol and OTC’s CPPMF. Uh, they have a signature project which is called Sombrero, high-grade copper project in Peru, one of the largest copper-producing countries in the world. And I had Ivan on probably about 2 months ago, and he talked about Sombrero having the potential to be a top 10, maybe top 5 largest producing copper projects in the world. Uh, that sounded crazy to a lot of people, and since the company didn’t really have financing in place or didn’t have the permit to begin drilling, so I understand if people were skeptical. I know Ivan for a long time, he’s a good friend, delivers, has done great for his investors, and having him on 2 months later, they just raised $6.5 million, where Tech, which is one of the most prestigious, biggest miners, uh, already a 9% plus shareholder, they came in on this financing along with a lot of big names.

Frank Curzio 01:11

So when you see big names coming in on financing, it’s that huge endorsement. They don’t do it unless they see something that’s massive, or has the potential to be massive. Even bigger news, they just received their drilling permit, which changes the entire landscape of a mining company. It has to re-rate. And if you look at Coppernico, it’s underperformed dramatically. It’s underperformed copper prices dramatically because they would—Ivan predicted that they would get this permit a lot earlier, and they just went through it in election, and we have a conservative got elected, which is really good in Peru, that’s what this project is. And even Ivan, he was saying, like, “I thought that we would get the permit earlier,” and it was a drag on the stock price, and I understand that. But now receiving this is kind of like getting the phase one approval, it gets re-rated, you have all the institutions looking at you, it’s a big deal, now it’s padded to the metal because you can drill. And I recommended this stock in our Alpha portfolio a few months back.

Frank Curzio 02:01

After recommending it, uh, Ivan came to us and said, “Hey Frank, you know, we heard you have a marketing consulting division now,” we didn’t know that, uh, because when I used to recommend the stocks, we didn’t have that division, and that division is doing incredibly well. We just have a shareholder update, uh, you know, announcing our financial results for the first 6 months. Growing is faster than almost we’ve ever grown in our company’s history. Uh, you know, just a lot of contracts have been signed, working with very good people, and, you know, when I talked to Ivan about this, he goes, “Look, I know what you’re capable of, having a great brand, a huge following, great track record,” because they saw that already. A lot of the companies that we covered, actually the CEOs were telling us, saying, “Hey, you know what, we pay a lot of money, and all these companies pay a lot of money for marketing services,” and a lot of it is dog shit, right? They just buy traffic and, you know, SEO and create these landing pages, and they don’t have a stake in the game, they don’t care.

Frank Curzio 02:47

Uh, I’m a shareholder in practically all of these companies that we’re working with. Uh, we’re in long-term, I only work with good people, and Ivan’s one of them. And, you know, it was an honor for him to say that after we recommended the stock, say, “Hey, you know, we really want you, we think it’s going to be great, you have a huge audience, we have a lot of positive calls coming up,” and he’s right, right? Because when you hear this interview, you’re going to see it. Uh, what I love is he called me after this press release, uh, for the permit, which is a big deal, and said, “Hey, I want to come on your podcast and talk about it,” uh, because this is what he waited 9 years for. And patient, and, you know, if you know Ivan, always paddle to the metal, go big, go home. Uh, this is a high-grade project that was just being held back because, one, they were going to raise capital after the permit, they didn’t get the permit, so I understand why people are like, “Oh, I’m going to go someplace else.” And now, you know, the two biggest risks that I say with all companies, the two biggest risks, three risks, whatever, they’re removed.

Frank Curzio 03:39

So now you have this runway where they’re going to drill like crazy. It’s very exciting to have major companies purchasing stuff all around Peru because there’s a big—you’ll hear this in the interview—that, uh, Peru just, uh, fast-tracked their environmental permits tremendously, which is huge, right? Because it’s one of the biggest copper-producing regions, and we know these permits always, you know, can be bureaucratic. And once they announced that news, which is about a month ago, and my Alpha members know this, uh, that’s why I added a second half position, because I’m like, they’re just going to get the permit pretty quickly. And they did, they got it already. And Ivan’s like, “Hey, I want to come on your podcast, this is going to be, you know, exclusive, first that you’re hearing about it, first podcast he’s doing, a media appearance that he’s doing, you know, talking about this.” And, uh, it’s really, really exciting stuff. If you’re an investor, uh, and you don’t own Coppernico yet, you’re likely going to buy shares after you listen to this interview.

Frank Curzio 04:28

So here is my exclusive, first interview since getting the mining permit with Ivan Bibek. Ivan Bibek, thanks for joining us again on Wall Street Unplugged. What’s going on?

Ivan Bebek 04:39

Oh, great to be here. A lot’s going on, uh, finally. It’s been a wait, but, uh, some really exciting things.

Frank Curzio 04:44

Exciting things. So I wanted to have you on. Listen, uh, you know, we have you as a recommendation, uh, a lot of subscribers love this, uh, the potential, everything, and lots of news, right? So you close out of a $6 million financing, and today, which is really cool, is your drilling permit, right? This is a very big deal. Just let me bring this up. It’s a drilling permit, I—it’s almost like getting phase one approval for a biotech, right? Obviously you can’t discover, you can’t drill, you can’t do anything. And once you get it, the institutions, everyone else around you starts taking you more seriously and saying, “Whoa, okay, these guys, okay, now we’re ready.” It’s a very big deal. Big news, I know it’s, you thought it would come sooner, it came. Talk about that, because really good stuff going on with you. It’s being reflected in your stock too.

Ivan Bebek 05:25

Yeah, thank you so much. Um, so, so permitting in Peru, those are—that’s the biggest challenge that we have as anyone who mines or explores in Peru. Permits can take time. Um, we actually did this way ahead of the typical timeline it takes, because we’ve been there for over 10 years, and we have incredible relations with both the communities and the governments. But this permit, to really summarize it real simple, will give us the ability to drill off a mine should we find a deposit. And there’s no more permits that we would need from a drilling perspective. It’s the most advanced one you can get. It’s not easy to get this permit. It takes a lot of time. We started thinking of it when we first started to see evidence that Sombrero could be a world-class quality copper discovery. So getting this permit is a major milestone today. It’s going to change the entire direction of the company here in the next few months, going from a fairly inactive, quiet, waiting-for-permit company to a company that’s about to start drilling and see if we have one of the top 10 copper mines in the world at a time where copper prices are skyrocketing and the demand outlook is incredible for the metal.

Frank Curzio 06:21

Yeah, and just to show the significance of this right here is when you look at a chart and, you know, you’ve seen copper prices right here, and this is like the past 3-4 months, and your prices dropped off because maybe some people maybe thought you’d get the permit sooner. And it’s amazing how it re-rates because when copper is going higher, you should be going higher, and copper—now you look at just, you know, the past month basically, and you’re seeing this re-rate, right? You’re seeing, uh, your stock do a lot better because investors are like, “Hey, okay, we need to see the permit first,” right? Let’s get the permit, and it just brings in this whole new crew, and it’s now reflecting your price. Talk about bringing—say if someone’s listening to this for the first time, we’ve interviewed you, uh, about, I would say like a month ago, maybe a little longer, uh, talking about this. But talk about Sombrero, talk about Peru, uh, the importance of it, because this just—everyone has a project, right? This is different.

Frank Curzio 07:07

The reason why I’m recommending this is this could be something that, you know, changed the landscape of the industry. It could be that big. It’s not just one drilling small project. It’s amazing. Talk about the potential of this, because you go big and go home, and I say that a lot, and this is a very—you know, a very, very big project.

Ivan Bebek 07:21

Yeah, so great, great comment. Um, so early in my career, I found two gold mines and, uh, been part of some other great successes. Uh, they were good-sized gold mines. 5 million ounce gold was the big one we found. Um, that’s about $25 billion of gold today. Uh, the equivalents here in copper and gold that we’re looking for would be something worth a neighborhood of $70 to $100 billion worth of copper and gold. That is dramatically bigger than what we’ve done before. Um, the time it took to get here is the impressive part, 10 years, persevering through getting to know communities, winning their trust, uh, getting familiar with the Peruvian government. Uh, we chose Peru because Peru has some of the largest copper gold mines in the world, and that’s what we’re certainly going for here. Um, when you’re an explorer, everyone has a project. You set it well. Uh, the difference here is the validation has been pretty significant. Uh, if you saw our news, uh, last week, we just announced that Tech has added more.

Ivan Bebek 08:12

They maintained their 9% interest in the company. Uh, Tech just merged with Anglo Gold. They’re becoming Anglo Tech. That’s going to be about a $90 billion company that owns 9.9% of this company. And then Newmont is a major shareholder. They own about 6% of the company as well. So those are two of the larger mining companies in the world. One’s gold-focused, gold-copper, the other one’s copper-gold, or predominantly copper. And they’re betting on the fact that we might have that big, massive $70 to $100 billion ore body. What’s really, really challenging in the copper world is the supply and demand. We’re all hearing about it, the tightening. Uh, the U.S. has made a big purchase, about 200,000 tons of copper recently. They put on the tariffs to try and corner the market. When we talk about that and the shareholder base and where we’re going, we’re seeing a very competitive market for quality copper assets, and that’s certainly what this represents. And it separates itself as a project because it’s a district-scale opportunity.

Ivan Bebek 09:05

What that means is there could be 6 or 7 major copper mines here in one big land package. Um, in addition to Anglo and Tech being working nearby our property, they have some claims not far from us. They’re a major shareholder now as well. Um, there’s a company by the name of Solaris that just acquired 50,000 hectares on the western side of our property. Uh, Solaris is, uh, is about a $2 billion copper developer that’s just going towards production in Ecuador, run by a world-renowned, uh, entrepreneur, multi-billionaire. Um, seeing that activity in the region, it gives a lot of confidence that this region, which had historically been challenging to work in, is getting better. Uh, we’re there, uh, another big major advanced developer is there, and then you’re also seeing now, uh, big companies like Tech and Anglo in the region. So this is a region that’s heating up. The thesis was, on this slide you’re showing right now, that this major copper trend called the Endowilis Yari Belt and hosts mines such as Las Bombas, that’s the 10th largest producing copper mine in the world.

Ivan Bebek 10:04

The theory was that the western side, where the image is green, a volcano erupted and covered a lot of the, um, of the ground, so you couldn’t see the rocks. And through erosion, we saw some windows of erosion where the copper was sticking out on the surface, actually quite a bit of it. And then we went into the region believing that that whole entire mining trend could exist on the western side where we acquired 50,000 hectares. Um, we had sampled almost a million hectares, and we chose the 50,000 hectares that had the most prospective copper and gold on the surface. We did a lot of studies, a lot of really important science to bring us to the stage of where we think we could have this big discovery. There are two areas, we kind of call them jewelry boxes. They have an incredible amount of copper and gold on the surface. One’s called Furaso, the other one’s called Niac. We will be able to start drilling Furaso with this permit first. Um, there is a small resource that already has started by an iron, a steel company was drilling looking for iron.

Ivan Bebek 10:58

Uh, they walked away because when you see copper mixed in with the rocks and iron, you cannot extract the iron economically. So we came in there on the backside of that, that showed us that the start of a deposit was already there, and it brings us the confidence that this thing could really, really become what we thought it would be or potentially be as the next Las Bombas or much bigger. So the stakes are really high here. The hard work has been done. Um, there’s a lot of shareholders that have been extremely patient. We’re super, super appreciative of the time, the patience, but there’s a lot of new ones coming on board, and they’re taking advantage of the last 10 years to bring this project to the state. This permit gives us pretty much unlimited drilling over a vast area that gives us a chance to test 6 out of 7 major targets. Each target could be standalone, a major mine, and that’s the uniqueness of Sombrero. There’s a lot of half to 1% copper or above on surface. That is, from the average copper grade in the world that’s being mined, is around half a percent.

Ivan Bebek 11:55

This starts there, and it goes to double that average grade. That’s something you’re not seeing in many mines around the world. There’s also full infrastructure here: power, roads, uh, towns for a workforce nearby, but not on the project. And then you have access to resources of water, and you also are at moderate elevation, about the top of Vail if you’re a skier, uh, about 3,900 meters. And then it’s also very moderate terrain, so the geometry works well. Why is that important? Because anything you find in any values of copper, they’re going to be worth a lot more, because you don’t have to bring power lines in, you don’t have to bring water from hundreds of miles away. It’s all right there. So this is a really, really unique project. It took a lot of patience and perseverance to bring it online. From a shareholder perspective, the people that have waited, or people looking at it right now, you can see our chart starting to pick up a bit. Um, we’re a $50 million U.S. market-cap company as we sit here in this interview today.

Ivan Bebek 12:48

And if you look at the analog, which is very strong geologically, called Las Bombas, it’s also geometry-wise, the shape of it and the scale of it. Um, that company sold, that asset sold for $5.8 billion back in 2013 when copper was around $3.20. Sorry, $14 when copper was $3.25 a pound. Copper is at $6.50 a pound. So copper price has doubled. Copper discoveries have become much more scarce than they were before. Major copper mines are big, big holes in the ground. Copper is getting more expensive. Grades are declining. So what’s that worth today? And so our proposition is that we could have the next Las Bombas, and we’re finally going to be able to start drilling it this fall and see if we have it. That would put us in the $5.8 billion potential market cap if we were to be successful and complete that venture. At $3.25 copper, copper is at $6.50 today. These deposits are harder to find. So the value proposition is multi-billion from our perspective. We’re at $50 million today, and that’s something that drives me as an investor.

Ivan Bebek 13:47

I’ve always added to my positions. I only do well if the company does find the mine and we sell it and monetize it. I’ve been there before. With our last company, Caden, we drilled 100 holes and sold a project while we were finding it in Mexico. In my view, because Newmont and Tech are both major shareholders and the market is so competitive for quality copper assets, it’s a critical metal in the U.S. Amongst other countries, they’re all pursuing the copper and trying to protect their supply. This is something that could end up in a pretty aggressive auction. So would any other new major copper discovery, but Sombrero is really primed for it. And the only thing that’s prevented this from going further has been the time to get these permits and get through social access.

Frank Curzio 14:26

Talk about that.

Ivan Bebek 14:27

And Peru has been.

Frank Curzio 14:28

Talk about that a little bit. Sorry to cut you off, but because this has been in the making, and I know you, right? I know how fiery you get. I know that you love what you do. You just have great contacts in the industry. People know when you put your mind to something, it’s going to happen. This has been 9 years, right? I mean, you talk about the patience of where you are right now. Finally, the permit, right? Now you have Tech coming in. Now you’re at the project where I always say, listen, you know, junior miner playbook, infrastructure in place. People don’t talk about that. I mean, you could have, you know, 20 million, 50 million ounce discovery at some place where it’s going to cost you billions to get it out, right? So, you know, it doesn’t really matter. So, you know, infrastructure is very important, which is already built. You have these big investors coming in. Now you have the capital that you just raised. Uh, everything seems to be coming together at this one time. And when you’re looking at a project you’re comparing it to that sold for $7 billion at $3 copper prices, now you have copper prices.

Frank Curzio 15:18

Listen, you’re in the right market, right? I mean, gold’s up and down, silver’s up and down. I mean, copper is just steady. It’s double now. Uh, you know, the potential is there. How is it personally? I want to know because I’ve been through grinds. This has been a big grind for you, and to get to this point, I mean, you got to be really excited right now.

Ivan Bebek 15:34

Well, it’s nearly half of my career. I’ve been doing this for 25 years. This is 10 out of 25. Um, a lot of people came and went, great geologists. It’s outlasted a lot of great people, and the perseverance has been a level that I didn’t expect. Um, everybody wants a major discovery in their career, something that could change the world’s or affect the world’s global copper supply. That’s certainly where I’m shooting for. Go big or go home is my attitude. Go for the big one. You make all the money on the big one. Um, the thing I miscalculated, being very humble about it, is the time it takes. And we’re in year 10. I thought we would have been here in year 3. Um, the biggest difference, though, in that timeframe is we went from 3 really compelling targets to 12. So the project got better, and the confidence grew on a lot of these targets. That’s a bit of a tease, though. You’re sitting there, you’re finding these incredible, robust targets, and you’re starting to see things that could really develop into a great, great copper discovery, but you can’t drill them.

Ivan Bebek 16:29

So we did our part. We have incredible counterparts in Peru that have done a remarkable job, incredible community team. And then we brought in agriculture with the government, and we bridged the gap between the community and the government, and we created jobs in the process. There was an iron deficiency in the region, the lack of red meat. We brought in cows, we brought in fish farms, we brought in weaving programs, uh, for the women in the towns as well. And we’ve made a multi-generational, sustainable impact before we even drill our first significant discovery. This is important to us, and this is important to everything mining in the world. It’s affecting the supply and the time to get copper online everywhere. But that hard lifting has been done. As I went through those 10 years, I had other companies just as big or bigger than Tech and Newmont, who are shareholders. They’ve complimented us, said, “We never thought you would last this long. We never thought you’d hang on this long.” And everybody was waiting with deeper pockets to seal this asset.

Ivan Bebek 17:25

But, you know, it gave me a lot of confidence. Every time I’ve shown this project to a major mining company, whether it be Tech, Newmont, or some of the other top ones in the world, I’ve gotten the same glowing report card back. This is an incredible asset, and the confidence that there could be a major mine here was really high. That helped validate our perseverance to pursue it. Um, looking back at your career in 25 years, half of it spent here, we all know the one thing you can’t buy is time. And this is something that is now at the flexion point, as you very eloquently pointed out. Everything’s happening at once. We have another 4 or 5 very significant milestones that should take place between now and the end of September. Um, these are things that we’ve worked on for some time. They will give us tremendous optionality in the company to add considerable value. Um, these are things we’ve been quietly working on. One thing took us 11 years, even longer, or 10 years. The exact same time it’s taken here, but it’s going to unlock a lot of potential value for the company.

Ivan Bebek 18:21

It all happens at once. Everything goes wrong at once. When it goes wrong, and everything goes right at once. And right now, everything is going right with the company here. So we’re at a point where it’s exciting, and it’s starting finally. Um, I’m overjoyed with it. Our management team is psyched. Everyone’s really excited about it. And now the fun part starts. And, uh, as you said earlier, it’s not just the base hit. It’s beyond a Grand Slam. Um, if you dig, use ChatGPT or whatever AI source, just start asking about the supply of copper and demand and why copper prices are rising. You’ll be blown away by how big of an issue there is globally on copper supply. Copper is one of the most abundant metals on the planet, but quality copper, half a percent or better per ton of rock, which is the average grade of the average copper mine in the world, is becoming nonexistent. Supply chains are tightening. Countries are putting tariffs, like the U.S. put tariffs on to protect their copper. They’re stockpiling.

Ivan Bebek 19:18

Uh, the Congo is reducing their output of copper. They’re keeping it. They’re stockpiling as well. This is becoming a very, very expensive copper market, which couldn’t be better for us. So it’s a dream timing. I didn’t want it to take 10 years, but it’s happening with doubling copper prices in the last few years. And, uh, and you’re seeing the targets that have really shined about this project.

Frank Curzio 19:40

It’s interesting, too, that people a lot of times, you know, want to get into AI. They want to start AI companies. They want to start what’s hot. I mean, it’s nice that, and sometimes if you can’t get in right away, you might miss the trend. It actually benefited you because you see copper prices rise tremendously as, you know, you’re going through everything that you just said and permitting. I want to talk about the permitting because how important was this? Because when your capital raised oversubscribed very easily, I think this had to do with this news because news came out under the radar, unless you’re in this industry or, you know, you know Peru. Uh, new administration came in, and then they decided to do this, which is they cut the environmental permitting times, and this just came out, right? I think that’s why, because, you know, being oversubscribed, seeing what your stock is knowing, hey, these guys are definitely going to get the permit now. But now he’s at your permit. You said somebody, you know, others are taking stakes very close to you, which is good news for you when you see big companies taking stakes around you.

Frank Curzio 20:29

That means you’re in the right area. How important is this? Because, you know, Peru cutting environmental permitting times, of course, it’s great, but it just shows the rest of the world, hey, you know, not only one of the large copper-producing countries, but now you have a friendly government that wants to help you guys out. And it seems like you did that whole road in 9 years. How important is that? Because once I saw this news, I’m like, you guys are going to get the permit within a couple of weeks. At least that’s how I felt.

Ivan Bebek 20:50

Yeah, so, uh, there was an election that just happened in Peru. And as of Friday, there’s a new president in Peru. Uh, she’s, uh, conservative in the sense of fully pro-mining. I mean, either left or right, everyone’s pro-mining in Peru, but things seem to move a lot quicker. I’m not political, but I have to deal with both sides of the political, you know, side of the countries, whichever way they go. Um, the shift, though, with what you just showed about permitting, cutting timelines, and all of that, the red tape, you know, they’re still very vigilant about their process. But there’s a lot of value that can be created in their economy, and there’s a lot of value that can come out. And mining is 40% of their GDP. So they’re very smart. They’re smart enough to see that the more copper that mines that come online, the more it’s going to benefit, the more jobs it’s going to create, the richer their country is going to get. And right now, there’s kind of like a full pedal into the metal on, let’s move this forward, and we’re seeing timelines shrinking, which is great because not just for what we’re going to do next, where we’ve got a very good permit for that, which will keep us extremely busy for the next 18 months drilling, but it’s more about when we start to monetize this and discoveries made and we start to consider it to be a mine being built or the next purchaser of our company would consider that.

Ivan Bebek 22:00

They’re going to have a much better environment, a lower discount on the valuation of Peruvian companies. But you’re also seeing the global money crunch or copper crunch. People need copper mines to come online. You cannot speed up social. Social will always slow things down, but you can improve the permitting process. And it’s awesome to see the Peruvian government doing that as we’re about to go drilling. They’re improving the environment considerably, which will lead to a bigger premium on any kind of Peruvian discovery that’s made on the copper sense.

Frank Curzio 22:29

So now you have everything in place, everything is going on. What are the catalysts going forward? Because we’re working, and it’s disclosed that we work, and, you know, I recommend your stock before this. And we’ll talk about that in a minute because we’ll work together as a marketing partner of yours, uh, you know, consult marketing partner. Uh, and when I work with companies, I only work with select companies, uh, great CEOs. We don’t work with any bullshit. And for me, I always tell CEOs the same thing. And you know this, but I want you to explain it, uh, you know, in layman’s terms. Because how important is it? When I work with companies, I tell them, what’s the news? Well, okay, the permit. Okay, great. What’s next? And they’re like, what do you mean what’s next? That’s the catalyst. I’m like, well, you know, a lot of people have been in your stock waiting for this. And once you announce that, you have the liquidity where they might trim their positions. You know, what’s the catalyst for the next 6 months, 9 months, 12 months? Because now investors are excited and they want to see what’s going on.

Frank Curzio 23:16

What are the catalysts that investors are going to see in the next 6 to 9 months? Because it seems like, like I said, pedal to metal drilling, you know, now I feel like you just got your handcuffs removed and, you know, it’s a lot of fun right now.

Ivan Bebek 23:27

So by reputation, I’m extremely aggressive. And we’ve got a lot of mandates internally that we want to achieve. I can’t talk about all of them at this stage, but I can say that you’re going to see us pursue and hopefully add a U.S. asset to go alongside Peru. We don’t need another asset, but we do see a massive opportunity in Peru. Things are still very affordable. And if we can make the company pregnant with one more opportunity that’s the same caliber as Sombrero by outcome, and we could take a shot there at the same time for a minimal cost, minimal dilution, then we would have served our investors with a two-pronged opportunity. One big one in Peru, one in the U.S. in a very geopolitically obviously stable place, and this would give us more. Uh, so we’re pursuing something there that may or may not come to fruition. Uh, we’re doing our best to get it. There are other things going on in Peru with Sombrero that are going to drive us into targets that are very well followed. Uh, we’re pursuing additional community agreements, additional permits.

Ivan Bebek 24:25

And there’s a snowball that’s kind of getting bigger and bigger momentum behind that. And then thirdly, as we get into the fall, um, again, there’s a few things out there that create a lot of opportunity for us. I don’t want to get into too many specific details, but the company’s going to come alive like it hasn’t been in the last decade with a multi-asset portfolio, with a very, very strategic outlook and opportunity to deliver multiple world-class discoveries and give us a chance to capitalize on not just the copper, but the gold market that’s coming forward. We are copper gold. We benefit from both sides. We see incredible gold grades at Sombrero as well as we do copper. And those are two of some of the best commodities right now going forward, copper being an essential one for everybody. Um, and then gold obviously being, uh, one risk-and-gains currencies and economies and global debt and whatnot. So we’re putting ourselves in a position to have tremendous success. We’re going to have multiple assets going into the fall, and this is going to give us a special optionality that worked extremely well when Coppernico was in a company called Oren.

Ivan Bebek 25:26

And if you remember back when we first started working together, I think we started working when Oren was $1.30 per share, and we went up to almost $4 after that. Um, the company was spot on.

Frank Curzio 25:37

How did that though? How did that though? It went up to $4? Okay, because I need to tell a story. I think I told it once before. And just to show you why I haven’t had so much credibility is when we first met, I really loved this stock. The stock has run up, and I said, listen, I really love what you’re doing. And it’s very rare. I don’t really invest in a lot of junior minor stocks. I look at a lot of risks. And, uh, this is the first time we met, and you said, listen, things are great. We just came out with a string of really good news. You might want to wait a little bit. We’ll price it. I got to tell you, there’s not one person in the mining industry that would ever say that to anybody. You know what I mean? The only reason why you say that is because you care about investors getting in at the right time. And I don’t know why people don’t understand that, because if you get them in at the right time and then you make them money, they’re going to follow you for the next 30, 40 years. And people are just like, you got to buy, you got to buy. And for you to tell me that right off the bat without even knowing you, that built a credibility.

Frank Curzio 26:25

And that’s why you’re seeing Tech, Newmont, you know, all these big investors come in and trust you. But go ahead, I want you to go there. I needed to tell that story, which is amazing. I always appreciate it.

Ivan Bebek 26:33

Yeah, that’s a great story because we didn’t know each other well, and the timing was perfect. And I think it was around $3.10 a share. You called me up, we spoke, and you’re like, hey, do you want to keep marketing what we’re doing? And I was like, we’re at an expensive price. Like, I’m more worried about being overvalued than being undervalued against an asset, right? So Sombrero was the flagship of this company. This became the driver. We had Canadian assets and we had Peruvian assets. And this is the optionality I’m bringing back to Coppernico. Um, the cost of bringing in a couple more assets is nominal, but the opportunity is going to create this optionality we had in Oren. Why? Because if we have a U.S. asset and there’s any delays or anything goes on in Peru that’s concerning to investors, a discount gets applied geopolitically. We’ll have a U.S. asset that we’re driving. We can drive forward instead. Uh, so this is going to take away a lot of the risk. Secondly, um, a multi-asset company, when we spun Coppernico out of Oren, the main asset in Oren, $320 million market cap, was Sombrero.

Ivan Bebek 27:33

We’re now at a $50 million market cap. Why was there so much more market cap at the time versus now? Because Coppernico, sorry, Oren had five different assets in it. So it had a lot of optionality. So that optionality is coming back. I wasn’t going to just do it for the sake of getting any asset that I wanted. I want something that has the same potential outcome that a Sombrero does. And after looking at 250 projects, we’ve narrowed it down to three, and we’re pursuing them as we speak. But I’m bringing that back. And no, I don’t ever want to be overvalued on any reason, uh, for the basis of major mining companies or investors. Uh, sometimes the market gets ahead of itself, but sustaining that value and that share price is not easy. What I always fall back on and what our management team and our board does is are our fundamentals, you know, worth the price in the company? Is it worth more? And right now, I’d say we’re aggressively mispriced. We’re way below where I think we should be based on the proposition, the confidence of the geology and what we see in front of us.

Ivan Bebek 28:29

And now we just got this permit today, and now it’s going to fast track that potential to bring value back in the company and catch up on lost time on the speculative value of where we sit. That being said, when you look at that and you watch the fundamentals, you know, if we get crazy valuations for our company, is the asset big enough? Sombrero is something that I’ll never be able to achieve full value for because this upside potential is so big. And maybe we get there with the crazy copper market, but once we start drilling, that’s going to be where things really drive into the share price. So right now, it was on hold. It was in pause. We spoke a few months ago in an interview. We said there’s a lot of catalysts in front, drilling a bit of a top-up financing ahead. Um, what impressed me most since we spoke last on the financial side was we were going to raise, uh, capital so we could go drill and work on the project. And the financial interest was about $28 million. And it assumed we were going to have a permit by a certain timeframe.

Ivan Bebek 29:25

Uh, that permit did not come in time. It came today. And we took in about $6.5 million, as you just saw here with Tech topping up their investment, right?

Frank Curzio 29:33

And let me explain that really quickly because it’s important for investors. So, so when you’re expecting the permit and everyone’s saying, hey, you know, we’re waiting for the permit, waiting for the permit, and then it gets delayed, and then you do a financing before that, a lot of investors, even institutions, may see that as a little bit of weakness, which created an opportunity where your stock price has gone down. Now you got the financing, right? You have the capital. Now you got the permit. You’re still trading at a huge discount. You have this high-grade project, right? That’s massively, massively scalable. Uh, big investors, Tech participated in this, which tells you how important it is. And then you have Newmont on the cap table, uh, right market, copper on fire. I mean, but you’re still trading at a huge discounted price. And that’s, that’s why I love where people can get in here. It’s, uh, you know, again, I think it’s a steal as well.

Ivan Bebek 30:15

Yeah, so that’s exactly it. And the timing. But why was my stock down? Why is my stock cheap? You just described it perfectly. There was a delay in permits. There was an election in Peru. There’s a war obviously going on in Iran. And all of that has created the most opportunistic entry point. The election went the right way for mining. It went in a very good way. You’ve already seen an adjustment in the Peruvian mining law to speed up permits, which is incredibly positive. We got our permit finally. So we left over $20 million on the table in that funding. Uh, we didn’t want to dilute. We will take capital at some point later in the year after a series of these catalysts I’m alluding towards. Obviously, very forward-looking statements here, but we’re going to work hard to achieve these. Some things we can control, other things we can’t. But we’re going to try to be, you know, in the most opportune time for performing by the end of September. That’s our mandate. And everything’s moving ahead at a great pace.

Ivan Bebek 31:05

And so we’re looking forward to it. Um, blessed with a commodity market that’s not only improving in share price, but the fundamentals of the commodity market are massive. Um, I’m in the U.S. right now. You can listen on the radio station. People are starting to talk about gold prices, copper prices. The general investing public that’s not familiar with mining is always late to the party. And it’s a very, very, very small market. It’s a tiny market. The entire mining market would fit into one tech company. But these metals are essential for the growth and the continued development of the world. Um, when you take that back and you put it back together and you realize what’s coming, one of the best bull markets in history has started for the commodity cycle. And it’s not driven by temporary events. It’s driven by long-term structural events. Um, the copper world, and people look at the price, it’s moved up. You can bring a lot of stuff online. It’s a lot of re-engineering and a lot of social and permitting that’s necessary for an existing copper mine to increase its throughput of how much they’re going to produce to expand their pits and redesign their pits.

Ivan Bebek 32:07

That does not happen overnight. It’s a very, very slow process. So a director, a former director, Keenan Jennings, he was the head of exploration for BHP. He joined us about two and a half years ago, was on the board for two years before he took a full-time job with Oceana Gold, a major gold producer. Um, but he came on and he educated me well. I mean, he was the head of exploration for the largest mining company in the world. And he said, it’s a time problem with copper. And now it’s a scarcity of supply. So it’s both, but it’s quality copper and it’s the time it takes. We’ve spent the 10 years to get to this conversation. We’ve spent the time, the one thing you cannot buy and money does not solve. And we’ve built a rapport with the communities and the government. And the project now has got this permit. So now we can go ahead and start to execute on that part. So the next 18 months, our goals are massive. It’s an incredible amount of drilling and discovering that’s in front of us. Um, the type of geology that we call it is the Scaran system.

Ivan Bebek 33:06

And those are known to be some of the richest copper deposits in the world. But they’re also very variable and they’re also very expensive to drill. We counter that with performance. And in a rising copper market, you know, we’re starting at an area where we’re expanding a copper discovery. We’re going to have a lot of momentum coming right out the bit when we start putting out news from our drilling later this year. And it’s going to give us a lot of momentum into our share price and the ability to raise tremendous amounts of capital for the company and to go be very aggressive. This permit also, which is necessary in Peru, it allows us to use multiple drills. So generally, you get a permit to drill in Peru. You can drill off 40 different areas, 40 pads they call it. And you get one drill rig. Now we’re allowed, we can drill off 181 drill pads, as many holes as we want. And we can use multiple drill rigs. Um, in the view of famous people that have driven value for shareholders in the past ahead of me, billionaires and very known people around the world.

Ivan Bebek 34:03

Um, we will scale our drill rigs up with the project. So as we start hitting and exploring, we want to now take the next 18 months. And instead of drilling it slowly over five years, we want to do it in 12 months to 18 months and have as many drill rigs going as we can. That’s logical to the project on these discoveries. So we can shorten the timeline now that normally is drawn out. And that will give people a chance to see a lot steeper performance should we be making the discovery because we’ll be unlocking value. Each drill hole that a company like ours drills can add double, triple, quadruple market caps if it hits the right hole. That’s the exciting about exploring and looking for mines. People are always asking me what I do, what I do. And I’m an entrepreneur in the mining sector. I’m in the mining business. They assume right away I’m producing. I have producing mines. No, not at all. That does not drive me. I’m in it for the thrill of drilling something that wasn’t there before and finding a multi-billion dollar asset.

Ivan Bebek 35:00

That’s where the share price does well. And my first company, we started at $0.10 a share. Company went from a million dollar valuation to a billion dollar valuation, just over $9 per share. And that’s the kind of return that I like a lot. I know we’re in the pennies today, but that company was $0.10 a share and it went to $9. So imagine that kind of projection here, 10 times better of a commodity market cycle, a real one with strong fundamental, you know, blessings and seeing how things are developing. Uh, two major mining companies, some of the largest in the world now that are already investors, which validates my arm wave about what we might be able to find better than any report you can read. They have a lot more geologists. They’re building, producing mines in-country, and they know it very well. And then you have the share price. And, you know, if you listen to Stanley Druckenmiller or some of those world experts on investing, the way I’ve measured my investments and I’ve listened to them is, is it a buy or sell today based on the opportunity?

Ivan Bebek 35:58

And if you look at the rich catalysts ahead, some that I’ve alluded to, the drilling being the obvious one that’s coming up, this is where the money gets made on these events. So I’m really excited to have this interview today with you because the specific timing. Yeah, the specific timing is inaugural timing of getting a massive drill permit in Peru. This is awesome. And now it gets to start. And so I think, you know, Frank, as we work the next 12 to 18 months, there’ll be so much news coming out of our company finally. And we won’t stop. There’ll be no more pauses with permits. If we get the U.S. asset, we’ll be able to drill year-round on both projects. And that’s something that’s going to drive constant value and opportunity for shareholders. But now it starts. And my schedule right now for the fall, I think I’m on the plane three and a half weeks of every month. And that’s because we will have results coming. We’ll be drilling. And now we’re going to go build a massive audience because we want to perform with the share price.

Ivan Bebek 36:49

But there’s people all over the world reaching out now that we got this permit. Everybody wants a meeting to hear about it, to hear about how it’s going to go. And this is where the fun part starts. And we can finally start performing for shareholders.

Frank Curzio 37:00

No, this is great stuff. Listen, you know, the stock price was down because of certain risks. Those risks no longer exist. It’s going to re-rate. It’s re-rating now. We’re seeing that, which is fantastic with a huge runway. So, you know, I’m behind you. I know my shareholders behind you, uh, investors behind you. You know, we’ve made money with you in the past. So really excited to see this go. And I know, uh, you’ll go down swinging if it doesn’t work. There’s always risks, but, um, I’m glad that we’re there with you and, uh, really exciting times. And congratulations, man. I know how long it took to get here. And people are just like, oh, I got a permit. It’s been a long road, man. It’s nice to see you get to this point. This is where it gets fun. And, uh, I’m looking forward to seeing the results going forward with drilling and everything. So thank you so much for coming on. I mean, right away, you know, you call and say, hey, we got a drilling permit. You’re coming on, uh, almost like an exclusive right now. So I really, really appreciate it. And, uh, hopefully you’ll come on and give us some more updates going forward.

Ivan Bebek 37:44

Thank you so much. Looking very forward to it. Great to be here.

Frank Curzio 37:46

Sounds great. Thanks, man. Look, guys, this is why you invest in junior miners. This is why you take risk. I say everyone should take risk. Even if you’re 98 years old, you should take on risk. Maybe you take 1%, 2%, 4% risk, whatever. That should be determined by your age, how much money you have. But you want to invest with the opportunity of you hitting a Grand Slam. And when you invest in junior miners, a lot of junior miners, people invest in them say, okay, I’m taking on this incredible amount of risk for two X returns, three X returns, which is not the worst. That’s okay. But you want to invest in this sector to achieve life-changing gains if you’re right. And if Ivan follows through and achieves his goals, they hit on Sombrero. I mean, there’s so many different areas within that. It’s not just, it’s almost like seven major mines within this area. Uh, I’m saying that as a person who’s done this in the past, making his investors a lot of money. We’re looking at a company which he said $50 million market cap that could grow tremendously.

Frank Curzio 38:44

And he’s talking about this area very similar to Las Bambas. We showed you maps of that, which Glencore acquired for $7 billion in 2014. Remember, copper prices were $3 then. So we’re not just making out a number or I’m not making out a number there. We want to see the potential. What we call this is analysts. We look at comps. We want to see there’s a comp. Okay, who has done this successfully? And it’s gotten taken over. If it hasn’t gotten taken over, if it’s grown to a large cap. So if this company does it right, here’s the valuation we could see that they have. It’s called comparative analysis. We have a nice comp and several comps. This is a good comp because it’s in the same area, same geology, uh, you know, and same infrastructure, everything in place. So when they purchased this, copper was $3 for $7 billion. And this is 2014. Copper is trading over $6 today. And supply constraints today are much more severe for copper than ever. I mean, if you look at the International Energy Agency, I took them on purpose because they’re the most conservative mining authority.

Frank Curzio 39:35

And usually, you know, they’re really off by their numbers usually because they’re too conservative. You see, projects of demand for copper could nearly double. Okay. So demand for copper, right? These projects. So demand for copper could nearly double by 2040. And they’re saying as more electric vehicles come online and grid infrastructure, which is a massive, massive growth market due to AI, which, you know, we talk about this for the past three years. We just don’t have enough electricity. We don’t have power lines. We don’t have this. And so now you see this runway for copper being in the right commodity where gold, you know, okay, great, 5,500, then it comes down to 4,000, up and down. I mean, this is this massive demand for copper and there’s not enough supply. There wasn’t enough drilling. Uh, so they’re in the right place, right time, and checks off a lot of boxes. So you could argue Sombrero is similar to Las Bambas, which got purchased for $7 billion at $3, but copper was $3.

Frank Curzio 40:24

So you could say, okay, maybe Sombrero could be worth $14 billion, right? Because Las Bambas today would be purchased for $14 billion because copper prices have doubled. If you look at $50 million and you go to $14 billion, it’s a return of 35,000%, enough to turn $5,000 into $1.7 million. That’s life-changing money for many, many, many people. Now, that’s the best-case scenario. Okay. We know the best-case scenario. And that’s a nice scenario to have. But even if it’s conservative, even if it’s a billion-dollar company, you’re going to make exceptional gains on this. And even at the worst-case scenario, and I would say worst case in case they don’t drill it, they don’t find anything, but you’re going to be able to see the progress in this, right, over the next 6 to 12 months to know if this thing’s really big. So would you put $10,000, $5,000? I don’t know. But it’s worth putting a couple thousand dollars in it and saying, okay, I’m just going to forget about this for two years. Because if Ivan comes through, it could be life-changing gains to you.

Frank Curzio 41:23

And if not, it’s not going to hurt you as much. And that’s how you want to invest speculative, which I’ve done all my life. I think people don’t understand how to invest. They want to put all their money into the most speculative asset. They lose it. They get pissed. They try to leverage it. They get annihilated. You want to have a portion of your money. I don’t care how old you are. You want to have a portion of your money in stocks like this where you could afford to lose. But if you’re right, you’re not going to get three X returns, four X returns. You’re going to get, you know, 35,000% returns. I mean, is that possible? Well, based on the comp analysis that’s there, it’s a possible scenario. It is possible. Maybe you have a 10% chance, 15% chance. Maybe it’s smaller. They’re going to have to raise more money in the future to continue drilling. But now this is what Ivan does. Once this, all this bullshit has passed, I could see it in his face. I know him. All bullshit of nine years working with the government, building up the agriculture, working with, it’s so hard to do in other countries.

Frank Curzio 42:13

And waiting for the permit for like a year, thinking he’s going to get it. And he hasn’t gotten it where he’s like, once I get the permit, I have so much capital that’s committed that he talked about on the, you know, earlier. Uh, and then you don’t get the permit in time. He’s like, okay, we need to raise a little bit of money beforehand, just in case this takes longer. He raised money, easily oversubscribed. Big investors came in. So now they’re funded for now. Again, they’re probably going to raise money later on to drill even further, which is good, but you’re going to see results before that. And now you got the permit, right? So that’s the biggest thing. This is the game changer for this company. So everything that pushed the stock down, like I said before, I got off the, you know, off the interview with Ivan. The reasons why this stock has been underperforming and in doghouse for such a long time was because of these risks that just all got removed at the same time. So I love the fact that it came on.

Frank Curzio 42:58

I think it’s worth the investment. This is why I took my second half position, because I knew the permit was probably going to get approved as soon as Peru came out with that news, saying, we’re fast tracking all these permits. And his was already pretty much should have been given to him a year ago. Now it’s pedal to the metal for these guys. And I’m curious and excited to see what Ivan’s going to do. Uh, because again, it’s always pedal to the metal with him. And I love this. So, uh, great stuff from Ivan. Uh, you’re looking at investments like this. This is why we invest for the chance of having returns like this. And this checks off all the boxes. Uh, so really, really again, great stuff from Ivan. And I hope you enjoyed that interview.

Announcer 43:22

Wall Street Unplugged is produced by Curzio Research, one of the most respected financial media companies in the industry. The information presented on Wall Street Unplugged is the opinion of its host and guests. You should not base your investment decisions solely on this broadcast. Remember, it’s your money, and your responsibility.