Amir Adnani—CEO, president, and co-founder of Uranium Energy Corp. (UEC)—joins me today to discuss the latest developments in the uranium space.
We go over the biggest stories for nuclear power/uranium, including why it was such a popular topic at the World Economic Forum in Davos last week… how Japan is causing a paradigm shift in the uranium market… and how the Russia-Ukraine war will have a massive, long-term impact on the global supply of this valuable resource.
Amir also shares some details about the world-class Canadian mine his company just bought—despite making a lower bid than competitors. Plus, he explains why uranium prices could double from current levels… and why the current supply/demand situation in the uranium market is unlike anything he’s ever seen in his career.
- Japan’s about-face on nuclear power creates a paradigm shift [4:45]
- Multiple tailwinds are driving the uranium bull market [9:10]
- Uranium supply isn’t keeping up with demand [13:10]
- Why Russian sanctions could impact the market for years [16:00]
- How UEC got a bargain on a world-class asset [20:50]
- Why uranium prices could double from here [36:20]
Wall Street Unplugged | 999
The uranium bull market is just getting started
Announcer: Wall Street Unplugged looks beyond the regular headlines heard on mainstream financial media to bring you unscripted interviews and breaking commentary direct from Wall Street right to you on Main Street.
Frank Curzio: What’s going on out there? Today is January 26th. I’m Frank Curzio, host of Wall Street Unplugged podcast, where I break down the headlines and tell you what’s really moving these markets. So, Amir Adnani is joining me today. Amir is the president, CEO, co-founder of the Uranium Energy Corp, UEC. He started this company 18 years ago, pride of Fukushima when things were great. But since then, which is 2011, the market for uranium stocks has been terrible. It’s come back over the past 18 months. When you look the market in that timeframe, it just goes to show you how amazing the job Amir has done, considering in over 10 years, the uranium price is so low, which is $50, hovering around 50 and it was much cheaper than that, that you can’t make money producing uranium. That’s why a lot of uranium companies have gone under; his hasn’t because he’s a good manager, managed costs, and survived this to the point where now, his company is not arguably, but is, the best play on uranium if you think prices are going higher.
Frank Curzio: Why would they go higher? If you look at the past, they were $120 a pound, that was 2017 and 18. Again, pre-Fukushima and the market crash, we saw prices go down below 20. But right now, Amir lays out an incredible argument. Okay. He’s been on the podcast numerous times, but this one’s different. And you’re going to see in a minute. We talk about why the landscape has changed dramatically in the past few months, and why we see uranium pop to new all-time highs early as this year. I know what you’re thinking, it sounds crazy. Amir is going to be talking to his book. Listen to the interview first, because if you’re looking at the tailwind the sector has right now they didn’t exist. And I’m not talking about the fundamentals, in the last couple of years the fundamentals were absolutely fantastic, in the last three years people getting out of the sandbox saying, “You got to buy uranium. You got to buy uranium.”
Frank Curzio: And it did, uranium went up but it has pulled back a little bit. And those forecasts didn’t call for uranium to go to 50, it was a lot higher. But right now, the tailwinds behind the sector, the stuff that has been holding it back, those walls are breaking. I think his forecast is for $120 uranium prices. After you hear this, I think that forecast could prove to be conservative. I’ll let you be the judge of that. And here’s that interview with Amir right now.
Frank Curzio: Amir Adnani, thank you so much for joining us again on Wall Street Unplugged. How’s it going, man?
Amir Adnani: It’s going great. It’s been a while, Frank. How are you doing?
Frank Curzio: I’m hanging in there. I’m hanging in there. Keeping busy these days. Crazy economy, crazy markets. But it has been a while, right? We’re used to seeing each other a lot more, but we haven’t seen each other in a while. Hopefully, that changes. I can get to Vancouver, or you can get back to the States, and we could definitely hang out for a little bit. So, it’s been too long, man.
Amir Adnani: I look forward to that. Maybe we can go to the Eagles-49ers game.
Frank Curzio: Yeah, I know your brother’s a big 49ers fan. That should be a good game next week. Yeah, either you could take your private jet here or whatever because I know you’re a big shot now. Were you in Davos or no? Did you make that? I didn’t know if you were in Davos or not.
Amir Adnani: No way. No Davos… And just trying to get by in what is an improving uranium market environment, but we’re still very much shy, Frank, of the $100 uranium environment that we’re building for and anticipating. So, things are pretty, pretty straightforward right now.
Frank Curzio: No, that’s awesome. You know what I am noticing though which is interesting? Is a lot of famous people are starting to talk about uranium for the first time. There’s like a little bit of… There’s a reason why I mentioned Davos, there’s a couple of people there talking about it, like Oliver Stone, his new movie, “Nuclear Now.” They said the theater, the screening was packed. You have Elon Musk just recently tweeting about it. You have Bill Gates saying that, “Hey, this makes more sense than anything else.”
Frank Curzio: Yeah, let’s start out with the politics. What are you seeing in terms of the adoption and people accepting this especially? Has that changed since the war, and now the energy… And how dependent Europe and everybody was on Russia and a lot of that has been cut off? But what are you seeing especially over the past six months? For me, I feel like I’m seeing more and more people actually talk about uranium for the first time when they used to just crap on it all the time.
Amir Adnani: Well, you can definitely talk about the Oliver Stones of the world, the Bill Gates of the world, but what has me just very excited right now is actually what’s going on in Japan. Japan was at the epicenter of the challenges that created problems for nuclear energy with the Fukushima incident in 2011, and today we’re seeing a very strong pivot in Japan towards nuclear energy. This is to me, one of the very bullish indicators out there. And I was just about floored last week when I was sitting in London with one of the major Japanese trading houses, one of the biggest importers of uranium into Japan, who for years has done nothing but just sell uranium into the market because the Japanese had all the reactors offline, and they had nothing but secondary supplies available to sell to the market. And they’re telling me last week, they’re like, “We’ve been told by Tokyo to start investing in uranium projects.”
Amir Adnani: Frank, let that sink in. These guys are going from being the seller, the incremental seller of inventory in the market for the last decade that caused the inventory driven market we were in and for prices to reach $16, $17 per pound low compared to $50 per pound that we’re at right now. But the turnaround in Japan caused by rising power prices, concerns about availability of energy, and so energy security. And of course, not to mention this big push towards decarbonization, which is real, which is starting to… You’re starting to hear people talk about peak fossil fuel consumption. And so from here, on the need to have to depend and rely and invest more heavily in sources of electricity generation, renewables, nuclear that are emission free. I look at Japan and I think to myself, “Geez, this is low hanging fruit.” You’ve got over 30 idled reactors that are built healthy, safe, ready to go, the restart program there.
Amir Adnani: And then on top of that, they’re talking about building new reactors. I tweeted today about the announcement that the current government has talked about even applying and approving 60-year license extensions for the life of existing reactors. This is big news. And so, it really I think demonstrates that we have a market that is fundamentally being driven towards much greater adoption than we ever thought of nuclear energy, as part of the energy mix moving forward. And yeah, it does help and it is great to have celebrities be it technology entrepreneurs or billionaires or famous movie makers and directors. That’s all really great as well. But I’m seeing the best fundamental nuts and bolts from a supply demand point of view on uranium today, and the Japanese turnaround situation is very fascinating. And then if you add a little bit of geopolitical lens to it, I also think the situation with Russia and possible sanctions on Rosatom is also very interesting. So, I’ve never seen it like this before, Frank.
Frank Curzio: Yeah. And the reason why I even started off with politically and even this, when you see this despite climate commitments on going back to coal, when they really… For me, when I look at what’s going on, and a lot of that has been because of Russia, just the politics about it, nuclear producers, zero greenhouse gas emissions, safer than coal, oil and gas produces 24-hour base oil power. I want to say, who are the idiots that are against this? Where if you’re really looking for clean energy and… This checks off every single box. If you’re on both sides of the aisle, it’s cheaper, it makes sense, it’s cleaner. It’s nice because we always talk about the fundamentals over the past few years and we knew that was going to catch up, and it’s catching up when we weren’t going to see prices where they were that you discussed earlier. Now they’re at 50, and I see them going a lot higher as well.
Frank Curzio: But it’s nice to see that, unfortunately, you need some kind of major event like this with Russia and Ukraine, where people realize how important it is to really adopt something that makes a lot of sense, and now to see other people coming out of it. It seems to me the runway has never been more clearer. Would you say that in terms of the adoption rate and how the demand that you see and positive on a political front, the supply and demand in balance? It seems like everything’s like go, go, go for nuclear at least going into the next few years.
Amir Adnani: Well, you just never had a setup like this before. You never had a confluence of these megatrends. The megatrends of again, decarbonization, the growing need for electric demand so electrification and electric vehicles and electric vehicle adoption. And then on top of that again, what Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has done is put energy security front and center. And every country is now really reexamining how it can be in control of its own destiny when it comes to energy and not be dependent on Russia. So, there’s a major movement afoot to diversify away from Russia when it comes to energy resources. It’s not just uranium and nuclear fuel, but it’s oil and gas and it’s other commodities as well, like nickel, that they play a significant role in. I think for decades we became accepting of the view in the West that Russia was just like us and that they were just going to supply the needs, and it was one big happy global village.
Amir Adnani: And I think what’s happened with Ukraine is such a shock, and it’s so horrendous, and it’s a humanitarian crisis that we never thought in 2023, 2022 reading about, and talking about, and thinking about European wars was something we thought belonged in history books. And here it is playing out, and it’s very concerning, and I think it’s very concerning to people in Europe. I was again talking to friends, Frank, guys, that we both know in Europe last week, and their home energy bills, just literally your monthly bills have gone up anywhere from a hundred to 400%, monthly energy bills just for your day-to-day life. And so, this is real. This is really hitting the bottom line of every individual, not just governments and countries and corporations, but bottom line impact for every person. And it’s coming over to our side as well because again, this issue of the supply chain bottlenecks and disruptions to the supply chain bottlenecks is a real thing.
Amir Adnani: But back to nuclear power, I think this movement to really embrace nuclear power started way before the Russia-Ukraine issue and war. It started again with the adoption in Europe, you look at the European taxonomy including nuclear energy along with natural gas and the European taxonomy. It started really when Washington recognized that the public opinion polls were at an all-time high in favor of nuclear energy. And then, policy shifted towards bipartisan support. It’s no surprise that in a country and at a time where everything in Washington is debated, and no politician agrees on one thing that there’s bipartisan support on nuclear energy. We both thought that Trump was great for nuclear and uranium mining, and then Biden comes in, and he’s been way more hawkish and supportive of wanting to see support for small modular reactors and development of a nuclear assurance program to make sure we had uranium in place.
Amir Adnani: The start of the US uranium program, the strategic uranium reserve, this is historic. Again, the last time the US government was stockpiling physical uranium, you got to go back to the 1950s. And so, we’re seeing unprecedented historic developments led by very favorable policy and political positions that are bipartisan and support from both sides of the aisles. And it’s not just the US, it’s like that in Europe. And this is, to me, unlike anything I’ve ever seen in my 20 years of being in this business. I think as investors, people always were looking for a black swan event to maybe be the catalyst for a new bull market in uranium. And the reason for that being that in 06 or 07, we had a black swan event back then the flooding of the Cigar Lake Mine that caused the uranium prices to shoot up to $140 per pound.
Amir Adnani: The reality is, history does repeat itself, but markets don’t need to always behave the same way. And this time around, we have a very fundamentally sound bull market developing. Sure, there may be a black swan event around the corner, but I don’t know necessarily that it’s a replay of 06, 07. This is a market today that’s primarily driven by a supply imbalance. The supply of uranium is 140 million pounds per year, that’s without a political lens, that’s without geopolitical disruptions. And demand for uranium is approaching 200 million pounds per year. So, there’s somewhere between 50 to 60 million pound per year structural supply deficit. The inventories that were in the market, overhanging the market primarily from Japan are now no longer in the equation, primarily because Japan is telling us they’re going to restart reactors, they’re going to need every bit of inventory that they have, and they want to start investing in uranium mines again and start to accumulate uranium again.
Amir Adnani: So, we move away from a decade of a market that was driven by inventories to a market that’s going to be driven by primary supply, which is production. And when you look at primary supply, you have to look at cost of production. You have to look at what is the cost nowadays to build and operate a new uranium mine? And this is where it gets very interesting and exciting, because over the last decade we had a bear market in uranium, but we didn’t really have a bear market in nuclear energy growth. There were over 60 new nuclear reactors connected to the grid since 2013, but over the last decade there was only one major new uranium mine built by the Chinese government in Namibia, the Husab Project-1. So, when you think about supply and demand, supply and demand for uranium is made up by reactors on the demand side and uranium mines on the supply side.
Amir Adnani: And we’ve had a decade where only one new uranium mine or supply source came online, but over 16 new units were built and demand just kept getting bigger and bigger. And now, there’s over 50 new reactors under construction with hundreds and hundreds of small modular reactors proposed to be built, including in the US. So, where’s the uranium going to come from for that? And so, you have an industry that went literally for a decade of doing practically nothing, and now has to ramp up in a world that is dealing with inflationary pressures, tight labor market. And you can’t exactly go and say, “Okay. Well, look. The tech industry just laid off thousands of people, let’s hire them to go work in uranium mining.” It doesn’t work like that. It’s a specialized industry, specialized skill set, and it’s going to take higher uranium prices and longer timeframe.
Amir Adnani: And so, this to me is the setup for a much more sustainable uranium bull market to see the supply side expansion needed, to erase the deficit that we have. Now, that’s just a pure fundamental supply and demand nuts and bolt story, add a geopolitical lens to that, potential sanctions on Russia that are being discussed as we speak in Washington. The Washington Post reporting last week that they believe Russia State Atomic Energy Company was involved in operations that supported the Russian military, there should be sanctioned for that. If that happens, you’re talking about the largest supplier of uranium and nuclear fuel in the world, all of a sudden not being able to supply the West. So, that does then create that near term disruptive event to supply that can cause spikes and volatility. But again, when I step back, Frank, there’s so many things going right for the nuclear energy adoption and acceptance. And then, from there, we go to a very constructive supply and demand market for the first time in uranium where again, inventories don’t play a role and it’s about primary supply and production.
Amir Adnani: But the good news for utilities is that while they may have to accept paying a higher uranium price, Frank, they’ve received billions and billions of dollars of tax credits in the Inflation Reduction Act, in the Infrastructure Stimulus Bill. And so, the utilities are in the best financial shape they’ve ever been. They’re the end users of uranium. And whether they’re paying $50 a pound or $200 a pound for uranium to fuel these reactors, they’re getting 20-year, 30-year license extensions. These guys are able to cover the cost of higher uranium prices, which is minuscule. It’s less than 5% of their all in costs. And so this is a setup where you got price elasticity for uranium. It is not linked or affected by a recession. And so you have a market that can really run this year despite broader concerns in the global economy, despite concerns in the job market. This is an industry that is really detached and removed from all of that, and has some really exciting catalysts and drivers going for it.
Frank Curzio: Yeah, you bring up a good point about the fundamentals behind the utility companies which is a big deal. I’m researching companies and industrial space, and they canceled their bond offerings. People forget the high interest rate environment, how much that hurts where you have that end user which has to buy this stuff in perfect shape and great balance sheets, that’s massive. I think sometimes that gets overlooked. I’m glad you said that. But let’s talk about UEC, something I’ve seen you grown incredibly over the past… Wow, how many years is it now since you started UEC?
Amir Adnani: 18 years.
Frank Curzio: 18 years.
Amir Adnani: 18.
Frank Curzio: Holy cow. 18 years. And you’re not just talking like, “You know what?” We talked to CEOs of that particular industry, but you’re putting your money where your mouth is, you could tell by the big changes that you made or big deals that you made with UEC. Talk about your recent acquisition which is Roughrider, which is $150 million. You bought it from Rio Tinto, high grade Athabasca Basin. Rio paid I think 640 million for that asset and you bought it for a lot cheaper than that. Talk about that and how that transitions, and also talk about the grades too. I know you know, but just for people out there who love uranium and learning about it for the first time, why is this such a big deal to you to have that exposure which is in Canada prime district?
Amir Adnani: Well, if we just step back for a second. After Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, we became convinced that there was going to be the need to diversify away from Russia. And that is a real trend in the market right now where, western utilities are trying to diversify away from Russia. We’re seeing it all the time. And so to have a company that offers more than just US assets and look like… Everyone accepted doing business with the Russians, literally everyone including us. Before Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, we closed the transaction with Rosatom, Russia’s state nuclear company, to acquire Uranium One Americas from them, the famous Uranium One that they acquired 12 years ago. And for over a decade, everyone in the US was scratching their heads saying, “Why on earth are the Russians able to control the largest uranium deposits on US soil?”
Amir Adnani: They ran a process to sell that, we stepped up and acquired that over a year ago. But that was before their invasion in Ukraine, it was okay to deal with them. And every US utility was dealing with them. They are one of the largest nuclear companies in the world. And the Russians had positioned themselves as a viable player in the global nuclear energy since the end of the Cold War. But with the hostilities and the war that they started in Ukraine, that’s a game changer. You just can’t continue accepting that. And we didn’t have any ongoing business with them, but the utilities did. They were still buying cheap uranium from them. And so, what our view was, this is untenable, this isn’t going to just go on like this. And so, it made sense for us to not only build our US production platform and business, but to expand into Canada where Canada’s Athabasca region is home to unusually high grade uranium deposits, deposits that are a hundred times greater than the average grade anywhere else in the world.
Amir Adnani: So, these are, again, the richest deposits by grade anywhere, and it’s just a very strategic place to be. Some of the largest uranium mines, in fact the largest uranium mine in the world, MacArthur River is in this part of the world, in Canada’s Athabasca region. And the market was still sleepy. And to me, it felt like this is the time to strike and this is the time to be aggressive. And so we in fact completed two acquisitions in Athabasca Basin, one was of a company called UEX, and then Roughrider which has a very famous deposit owned by Rio Tinto for over a decade.
Amir Adnani: They were in a bidding, competitive hostile bid with Cameco over this back in 2012. Cameco started the bidding at 500 million and Rio closed it at 600 million, spent another $120 million developing it. But for Rio Tinto, a $90 billion market cap company, ultimately the size of this deposit and the size of even the uranium market opportunity was too small, and just didn’t move the needle for Rio who was growing massively in other commodities including lithium and energy transition metal, which uranium is very much a part of.
Amir Adnani: Long and short of it is, when they look to sell this asset, they were prepared to sell at less than what they had put into it, which was a great opportunity for many companies. We were not alone. Many companies participated in this bidding process. But Frank, we were able to give them a fully financed bid, which really allowed us to close the acquisition. And we learned that our acquisition cost, which was $150 million, was still a hundred million dollars below other bids that they had but they chose ours. Why? The other bids were subject to financing, but our bid was fully financed.
Amir Adnani: Now, this is a really interesting takeaway. How were we able to create a fully financed bid? Well, if you recall, two years ago, we started to stockpile and stack physical uranium. And we did that because we felt it would appreciate in value, we believed in higher uranium prices. What better than to actually own the physical? But as we saw the physical price appreciate and we had a cost base in the $30 per pound range, now we had an opportunity to actually take some of those pounds, sell them in the market, raise cash, but put that cash back into our M&A strategy and give Rio a fully financed bid.
Amir Adnani: This worked really well because now we were able to harvest those profits. We generated close to 21 million in gross profits from the sale of 1.6 million pounds of uranium in the spot market. And we then put that into the acquisition of the world class Roughrider deposit, which is almost 60 million pounds of uranium at grades of almost 5%. The average grade of uranium in the world is somewhere around 0.3% or less than 0.3%. And this is 5% grade uranium and is really just a few kilometers away from infrastructure and other existing uranium mines in Athabasca, owned by the largest players in the industry.
Amir Adnani: So, these are the types of deals that I think, A, you can do in what is still in my mind the early innings of a bull market. We are not in a profitable market for uranium yet. A profitable market for any commodity is when the commodity price is significantly above the incentive price to build new uranium mines. We’re not there yet. $50 uranium is a nice level compared to where we were two years ago at $20 per pound, but you don’t see today major supply side expansion of $50 per pound. At a hundred dollars per pound, uranium prices will be well above the incentive price for first, second tier quartile production to come online. That’s when you start to have a proper uranium market.
Amir Adnani: It’s no different than lithium. Lithium prices are substantially above marginal cost of production, substantially above incentive levels to build new lithium mines. And you see there’s almost 10 times more capital allocation from funds and institutional investors towards that sector than uranium, because they can see those projects and that commodity makes money. Uranium isn’t there yet. And so, in my mind, this is an incredible opportunity, a moment in time to be doing M&A and growing as fast as possible. Frank, we did $570 million of M&A at UEC in terms of acquisitions in the last 15 months. That’s more than any other uranium company. And we still have 3.1 million pounds of physical uranium coming to us at $38 average cost that we’ve contracted for, and close to a million pounds of uranium on our account.
Amir Adnani: On top of that, you get the ability to sell uranium to the US government. So, I know you want to talk about Roughrider, we’ll go to the US government later. But on Roughrider, I think this is what is really transforming UEC. UEC now is a company that’s got US assets with institute recovery, low cost production that’s permitted and built, but combined with these very high grade, very rich uranium deposits in Canada, something you know in our 18 years and you know very well. When you came down and visited Hobson, UEC was maybe a one pony trick type of company. It was just Texas, it was just Hobson, and it was a great business and we still have that business. But we now have that at three times the size in Wyoming with our Uranium One acquisition. So, we have two production platforms in the United States that are built with processing facilities and infrastructure in place. Basically, a production restart opportunity.
Amir Adnani: But this whole other pipeline and business in Canada anchored by the Roughrider deposit from Rio Tinto. And look, Rio took stock in our company. In fact, as much cash as we gave them, they actually wanted to take almost 70 million in stock with us which they did at $3.94 a share, which is slightly above actually where the shares are trading at right now. And so, that was a big vote of confidence to have one of the world’s largest mining companies take 5% equity in us, in addition to the fact that they had other bids that they could have sold Rio Tinto Roughrider into at higher prices. I think it was a game changer for UEC. I think it shows that we now have a resource base that is the largest in North America in a diversified portfolio, and it combines geopolitically stable assets in mining friendly jurisdictions of Texas, Wyoming, and Saskatchewan and Canada.
Amir Adnani: These are three jurisdictions in North America that have existing uranium mining industry, decades of uranium mining outside of Kazakhstan, the world’s largest uranium producer that Russia controls. These are the largest jurisdictions for uranium production. So, in a world that’s trying to diversify away from Russia badly, I can’t think of two better jurisdictions, US and Canada as a one-two punch to take this company forward. And look Frank, 18 years into this, I’m the largest individual shareholder of the company, never sold any shares. My share position has only grown in the 18 years I’m doing this. Obviously, it’s a go big or go home mentality, and our shareholders want that. I think our shareholders who have suffered through a bear market that lasted than anyone anticipated, also have very high hopes and expectations of what the sector and this company can do.
Frank Curzio: So, are saying with this new acquisition that I shouldn’t go there and hold the uranium in my hand due to high grades like this anymore? So, if you watch it in our YouTube page, it’s me your… The Hobson plant or…
Amir Adnani: That’s at the Hobson facility. Yeah. Yeah.
Frank Curzio: Yeah. And I’m holding yellow cake which I had to get screened for to make sure I had no real… I don’t think I should do that with anything in Athabasca, that’s probably not a good idea?
Amir Adnani: I’m eternally biased towards Texas, as the company’s birthplace is there. And so, I think I’ve always said to you, the shade of yellow cake that comes from Texas is a shade that you just can’t get anywhere else. It’s a beautiful shade of yellow. So, you’re holding the best yellow cake in that picture you could possibly hold.
Frank Curzio: That was great times. It was great times, it was in that plant. So, let’s keep going here because I want to talk about a couple of things. One, the amount of cash you paid. Is that a concern? You had so much. And again, from that strategic… Just being able to… The physical uranium and being able to hold it and buy it at whatever it was, $36, $38. That put a lot of cash and liquidity in the coffins. But we’re now looking balance sheet now, it’s still strong. So, you probably have about 100 million, 115 million liquidity. Is that a problem? I’m trying to address what are some of the negatives? Because this was an accretive, you’ve got an asset in the greatest highest grade part of uranium district. It’s just the greatest ever in that district.
Frank Curzio: But some of the negatives might be, “Hey, did you overpay for this? Did you not? You could look at past results, but it’s a different market then. To be fair, it’s over a hundred dollars in uranium in 2012. It’s a much better market. But overall being accretive in everything, do you see that a problem? Because it seems like the cash position is still… I’m trying to address the negatives because for me as an analyst, when I can address the negatives and check them off and saying, “Hey, this isn’t really a concern.” That makes me want to buy the sake even more.
Amir Adnani: Yeah. Look, I’m happy for you to challenge me on negatives. I could just make things up. But I think the reality is that we saw unanimous positive reaction in the market to these acquisitions. These were acquisitions that were not only made at significant discounts to their historic bull market valuations, but Frank, these were acquisitions that were being done at basically less than discovery costs today. So, you think about what it costs today to go assemble a team and go out there and drill, and year after year to drill as much as you would need to define an ore body the size of… To pay $150 million for a world class deposit, to me that’s less than discovery cost, not to mention again that Rio paid 600 million and not to mention scarcity value, not to mention you own a hundred percent of it, not to mention it’s in Canada at a time of geopolitical tension.
Amir Adnani: Now, what’s the knock? Well, the knock is this project’s not fully permitted, we still have to invest to take it through permitting and we need to build it so on and so forth. But we’re talking about what are we paying for a resource in the ground? And in that instance, we paid around $2.50 a pound in the ground. So, it was very accretive when our company’s trading at $5 a pound in the ground. And it’s very accretive because again, you look at market multiples and in Athabasca Basin companies you’ve covered and you’re familiar with before, be it NextGen, be it others in Athabasca Basin trade at five to $6 multiples. So, when you can get Athabasca grades and deposits and resources in today’s market at half or one third the market rate, market going multiples and valuation, even in today’s market, these are attractive accretive acquisitions.
Amir Adnani: They’re below discovery costs and they’re well below current market going rates, and below our own valuation for resource in the ground which means they’re accretive. So, in a market where resources are going to start trading at $15 to $20 a pound in the ground, as uranium spot price approaches a hundred dollars a pound, we’re going to look back and say, “Yeah, these were even better deals than we thought they were, because you just can’t replace them.” And because the industry has spent a decade not doing anything, so it’s not like there’s 10 other Roughrider type deposits on the shelf that you can go buy. That’s a very unique asset, which is what I mean when I say scarcity value. There isn’t another hundred percent own world class deposit sitting on the doorsteps of existing infrastructure, that you can just go and buy tomorrow if you decide, “You know what? That’s it. I want to own a uranium deposit.”
Amir Adnani: These assets are far and few between because the sector didn’t invest in exploration and development for a very long time. And I think we’ve seen a few very unique situations come up in the last 15 months where assets were for sale, and UEC was able to really I think take advantage of that. And so again, if that wasn’t the case, I also don’t think you would’ve seen the positive share price performance we had last year, Frank. We had a difficult year in the market, broadly speaking for everything, and UEC had a good year. UEC was up on the year and in fact outperformed some of our industry peers like Cameco. I think that’s a testament to the market recognizing the quality of the acquisitions we did, and that these were not only accretive but actually enhanced the underlying value of the company on a per share basis.
Frank Curzio: Yeah. And even with the asset, for me, when I’m looking at the asset you bought, you have to really look at how long it’s been around. It’s been around for a long time sitting there. I think it’s 650 holes have been drilled already. A lot of the work has been done on it. And just to pick it up at that price, again, you did have a positive reaction with the stock. But sometimes I hear a little chatter that I want you to address as well and be fair, but…
Amir Adnani: And look, not only did Rio pay $600 million for it but they spent $120 million subsequent to the acquisition to do mine development work, that’s geotechnical drilling, environmental assessment work. And you’re talking about Rio, one of the best mine developers on the planet doing this work, so it’s of incredible high quality. And you get to basically literally pay the same price that they spent over a decade just on doing work on the project, yet alone the acquisition cost that they had in the beginning. So no, I just think any way I look at it, I see this as having been just a tremendous deal. And on top of that, again, any acquisition in the commodity sector, any commodity, it doesn’t matter if it’s gold, copper, oil, uranium is no different, in the context of the commodity price and future commodity price movement is how acquisitions are judged.
Amir Adnani: You and I both know at 60, 70, 80, at progressively higher uranium prices, any acquisitions made in a $40, $50, $20 uranium price environment start to daylight value because that’s the leverage that assets have to commodity prices. And I think that’s really what we’re building here. And that’s the key for me with timing is, you’ve heard me say it before, You got to buy your Christmas decorations in January.” And this is the time, last year was the time to be aggressively loading up on uranium assets. And I think this year is the time still for that, because I just can’t believe with all the positive developments we have in the macro that uranium prices actually still haven’t made their next move. They’ve made a big move, no doubt about it. To go from $20 a pound to $50 a pound in a span of 15, 18 months, that’s a big move. Not too many commodity prices have had a doubling like that in the last 15, 18 months.
Amir Adnani: So, uranium’s come a long way. The next leg up is to start to put the price into a range that incentivizes supply side expansion. That’s a move towards a hundred dollars a pound. And when that happens, you’re going to, I think, see another leg up and another re-rating of the sector which… You’re not going to see companies trade like we are right now at 0.6 on a price to nap basis, or 60% of the NAV of the company. You’re just not going to see that. You’re not going to see companies trade at $4 or $5 a pound in the ground. At previous bull markets, when you look at it for uranium, pounds in the ground would go for north of $15 to $20 per pound. Companies would trade at premiums of net asset value, not discounts of net asset value.
Amir Adnani: So, this sector has a major re-rating in front of it. It’s come a long way. Look, UEC was a stock that a few years ago used to trade at a dollar a share, less than a dollar a share, today it’s trading at almost $4 a share. And so, of course, it’s had great performance and people have made a lot of money there. But it all goes back to the uranium price, as uranium prices go so will our equity prices. But if you have underlying assets that differentiates your business, you have size, you have critical mass as we do, and you are not hedging. This is such a big issue. This is such a misunderstood issue in the uranium sector. People, whether it’s investors or whatever the case might be, believing that contracts or signing contracts is a good thing. Signing contracts is the dumbest thing anyone can do.
Amir Adnani: Seriously, if you sign a contract today, you have to accept the ceiling, you have to accept the floor, you have to accept a discount. Why would you do any of those things? If you genuinely believe in higher uranium prices, why would you sign a contract that had a $60 ceiling or a $70 ceiling? If you believe in higher uranium prices, you want to stay unhedged as we are, a hundred percent unhedged, and sell uranium into the spot market as the market improves just as we have, and you would capture the best price for your company and you’re not getting discount. You look at companies that have long-term contracts, they’re getting 20%, 15%, 10% below spot market prices. That just seems like bad business to me. But at the end of the day, the other kind of wild card in this is to really think about pricing in three levels. And I think Frank, moving forward, you’re going to have three price points in the uranium market.
Amir Adnani: You’re going to have the spot market, which is the daily see-through that we see in terms of bid asks that are there that you can sell uranium or buy uranium. That’s your spot market. So, that price today is $49 per pound. Then, you have pricing under long-term contracts. So, some of the larger companies that have the biggest portfolio of long-term contracts, they’re a good indicator of that. Their results come out once a quarter. You can see what they’re getting under long-term contracts. You look at that today, those numbers are somewhere between $43 to $45 per pound, so it seems to be at a slight discount to the prevailing spot price. But then, you have the emergence of this brand new thing, which is the US uranium price. And this is the price that now we’ve had some level of price discovery, with the Department of Energy purchasing it’s first million pounds under a 10-year government program to build a strategic uranium reserve. And they paid on average $60 a pound for a million pound purchase.
Amir Adnani: This never existed as a data point before where we could say to each other, “Well, hey, I really think a pound of uranium coming from the US is worth more.” And then, we would never know how to price that. What is that worth? Well, now you got Uncle Sam that just priced that for you. And they went into the market, they ran a process, they issued a tender and said, “Hey, everyone can bid, competitive bid process. We want a million pounds of uranium, but it has to be from US origin and you have to be a US company to qualify for it, and we want to see US mines, et cetera.” And the final award, you add up all the numbers. What did they pay for a million pounds? $60 per pound. That’s a 20% premium to the spot market.
Amir Adnani: Now that’s just a million pounds. Demand in the US, as you know, is 50 million pounds per year for all the utilities, forget the US government. So, even if 10% of US utilities said, “You know what? We need some of that stuff Uncle Sam got their hands on. We need some of that US origin uranium.” That’s 5 million pounds. To buy 1 million pounds, it costs $60 a pound. What happens if 10%, 5% of US utility demands said, “We need some US origin material because we have this guy sitting in the nuclear reactor called our risk management officer, and he feels uncomfortable that all of our uranium comes from Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Russia.” So, you start to put that in perspective, and it’s a pretty bullish picture, because now I think you have an environment where we finally can see the most precious valuable uranium on the planet is US origin, US supplied uranium.
Amir Adnani: And you got two customers, the largest nuclear fleet in the world, US utilities, which are in the best financial health and shape they’ve ever been in their lives. Plus the US government, which for the first time in 70 years wants to purchase and stockpile uranium. And on top of that, we have for the first time the Bill Gates of the world wanting to build advanced small modular reactors. There’s expectation of 300 of these being built in the US in the next 25 years, a forecast that we never had before. That would be a doubling of current nuclear capacity in the US. So, for the US market for the first time, it’s actually a growth market. In the past they used to always be, “Well, the growth is all in China.” Well, yeah, there’s growth in China, but now, we actually have growth in the US with the deployment of SMRs.
Frank Curzio: And you brought up a good point, and you didn’t say it so I’ll say it, even when I look at your presentation, you’re fast growing, 100% unhedged. When people look at… They used to look at uranium sector and say Cameco, Cameco, Cameco. That’s how I want to get exposure. But people do not realize how conservative they are and how hedged they are. If prices go to a hundred, they’re probably going to get $60, $70. I’m not even too sure, but I was looking at that spot chart compared to the hedges and stuff like that. But as it goes higher, it’s not going to be good for them in terms of… Just like oil hedges are, if you’re hedging your oil production, oil prices skyrocket, you’re not going to benefit as much, you play more conservative. But this seems like the best pure play.
Frank Curzio: Not only that, when you see the amount of shares, you’re a billion and a half dollar company now, 5 million shares I believe in average of trading where institutions will get in, NYSE. If you want that exposure, you believe, and I certainly believe, and I’m not just saying that I’ve never seen a clearer path to uranium going a hundred dollars. I think it’s inevitable. It’s just a matter of the timing of when it’s going to happen. I think a lot of us thought it would happen sooner than this. But now, like I said, there’s just so many catalysts. I’m looking for ways to see that I’m wrong and I’m having difficulty finding how I’m not going to see that. But if you want a pure play, there’s nothing better than you because you’re on hedge, you’re going to get the full benefit of this. Compared to Cameco, which a lot of people just go to Cameco and want that uranium exposure. If you really want uranium exposure, I believe this the way to do it.
Amir Adnani: Well, listen. I think there’s a reason why we’ve become the second most liquid uranium stock in the world after Cameco in terms of our daily trading, number one. Number two, there’s nothing wrong with hedging, and it’s important to actually say that. Maybe let’s just step back for a second for that. I think it’s important to state your strategy and let the market decide what it wants. You’re right, a strategy that, let’s say a company like Cameco has, where they hedge the price and they have floors and ceilings does present a more conservative strategy. And there’s nothing wrong with that. There will be investors who will say, “You know what? I prefer that conservative strategy.” But I think it’s important to fully understand that if you believe in a hundred dollars plus uranium price environment, then you should probably consider companies that have a strategy that provides for that exposure, and haven’t sold their future production at levels…
Amir Adnani: And again, we’re not making this up. Cameco and their most recent calls, their CFO for example, has said they’re happy to take a $70 ceiling in exchange for a $40 floor. So, that’s a conservative approach. There’s nothing wrong with that. And whereas, we’re saying our future production has not been committed to anyone, has not been committed to any buyer, has not been committed to any price. Now, we do have a uranium inventory program where we started to buy uranium when uranium prices were at $26 per pound, and we signed long-term contracts to buy even more uranium at those low cost. And we have made sales in the spot market from those because that’s not our production. That was for us a cash management tool to put uranium into the commodity that we believe in, that’s going up. And when we had the benefit to buy assets, which is our long-term business, we’ve sold that uranium that we were buying at a gain and plowed our profits back into M&A and growth.
Amir Adnani: So ultimately, what that also demonstrates is that our model does work. You can’t sell uranium in the spot market. The spot market has now become a very deep and much deeper pool of capital that’s available, and that trades in that market than it used to be. The beginning of the Sprott Uranium Trust injected billions of dollars of liquidity into the uranium market. And so, the spot uranium market is a place where you can go and transact and get the best prices for your company and for your material. It doesn’t have to be under opaque, difficult to understand long-term contracts, which don’t have the same transparency around them as a spot market does. So again, I think it’s fine. Each strategy has its own place. It’s on merit, no problem. But let’s just be very open about what each one means when you’re talking about how you sell your produced material.
Frank Curzio: And you said that very, very well, you explained that well. Because hedging oil companies, it’s okay, you could hedge 10%, 20%, 30% reduction. I think if you are not hedging, it’s always very important to make sure you have a good balance sheet in case the market crashes, which you always had. And that’s important too. And like Walmart, Target, they have massive fleets and they’re not an oil producer. They want to make sure they’re able to forecast based on consumer demand for all the products that they sell, where they’ll hedge a lot of that production. They’ll hedge a lot of the oil prices, this way they don’t have to worry about it. So, hedging does have its place, it definitely works. But when I see the potential of what I’m seeing here in uranium, the pure play and your balance sheet and everything else, this is how you get exposure to uranium, not Cameco. This is going to give you much more exposure if you’re a believer that uranium price is going to go high, which I think we both do.
Frank Curzio: Man, I usually try to keep these in 30 minutes but we’re just going on and on, I felt like this is a great conversation maybe because we haven’t talked so long. But so much has happened with your company, I just want to say that… This is going to sound cheesy, but I’m proud of you. We’ve been doing this for a long time. You want to see your friends succeed. I don’t want to see you sell your company for $10 billion. I want that for the shareholders, but I don’t want you to get too rich where you’re not going to hang out with me anymore. You want your friends to be successful, not that successful. But in all kidding aside, it’s really amazing to see how long we’ve known each other for a decade now, and just to see how this has developed, how hard you work, the way you position this company, and just seeing where the market’s going right now. It’s really exciting, man. And seriously, I’m really proud of you, what you’re doing with this company.
Amir Adnani: Well, you used to always say to me that maybe I should… Why am I wasting my time in uranium? If I was in any other sector or industry, maybe it’d be easier to make money.
Frank Curzio: That’s fun. Any other one, uranium or gold, I was like, “Man…”
Amir Adnani: But I got to say, I think we believed in the fundamentals, it was a very difficult environment to try to survive in. There are companies that have survived a very brutal nuclear winter. And I think again, if you hang in there, it does definitely seem like the fundamentals have turned and I think we’ll all be rewarded at the end of it. But I appreciate your comments, I really appreciate the airtime and to dig into these points and discuss them. And I think the benefit of having waited a while before coming on is that I was able to cover more ground and then come in and report more. And so, this was definitely a more meaty conversation and update, but it’s because we were busy and there was a lot to talk about. So, I really appreciate it, Frank. And really, really believe that this is going to be a really big year and exciting year for the uranium sector, especially at a time when there’s a lot of concerns and issues out there in the broader market. But this industry and this sector, I think, is going to sing to us on tune, hopefully.
Frank Curzio: No, that’s great. So, if someone wants to learn more about your company and learn more about you, how can they do that?
Amir Adnani: Look, uraniumenergy.com is our corporate website. We’re also on Twitter. I’m out there personally as well and provide information, so we’re fairly accessible. If you want to know what I’m thinking about and what I’m tweeting about, you can follow me there at @AmirAdnani @UraniumEnergy and uraniumenergy.com. And that’s about it. One of these days, maybe we’ll organize a site visit, take folks out to the Wyoming or Texas operations. I know you’ve done that before and have enjoyed it, so maybe we’ll do a special thing where maybe you and 10 or 15 or we’ll pick a number of your let’s say selected listeners or subscribers, can come down and tour and see these facilities.
Amir Adnani: We have incredibly talented people and they’re very proud to be in this industry, and they’ve been at it for a long time and they’re going to be the future of building the domestic uranium industry in the United States and this country. And we’re going to create even more jobs in the process. Not only make our shareholders money, but just be a real positive force and impact that we’re going to make locally in Texas and Wyoming. So, I think there’s lots more to the story to come.
Frank Curzio: I know 15 to a hundred people that would definitely love that trip, so I’m going to take you up on that. But thank you so much for coming on. I know how busy you are. Thanks so much for coming on and yeah, we’ll definitely talk again soon. Thanks, buddy.
Amir Adnani: Okay. Thanks, buddy.
Frank Curzio: Man, I’ve known Amir it seems like forever. Never, never, ever let friends come in the way of my job. So, I’m not going to recommend something. I don’t get paid by anybody. I’m not going to recommend something… Well, this guy’s really cool. No. You could be really, really cool, or you could be an asshole. It’s all about company fundamentals, how you’re managing. It’s my reputation on the line here, it’s why people listen to me because I’m bringing you companies I think you can make money on, great ideas. But I can tell you from knowing Amir, one of the hardest workers I know, travels everywhere, all over the world. And not just to travel and get out of the house, I’m talking about he’s a great family man, great dad, but one of the hardest workers which is saying a lot since I’ve interviewed more than a thousand guests, billionaires, heads of state, whatever.
Frank Curzio: Go on and on, you guys see the list. A lot of you know because you’re long-term listeners. Thank you so much listening to Wall Street Unplugged. I’ve been on field trips with Amir, lots of them. He’s introduced me to very important politicians, heads of state, former secretaries of energy. Always straight up for me or with me, just letting me know exactly what’s happening with his companies. No fluff, no BS. If you say, “Well, Amir’s a promoter or whatever.” He’s just excited. He put his entire career, his life in this sector. And I’ve always said to him, “I wish you were in another sector because we saw every other sector outside of the uranium and gold take off in the last 12 years.” And with his work ethic, he would’ve benefited tremendously. But I think it’s very, very important and very good that he stayed in uranium. Because right now, if you’re looking at UEC, and this is one of the premier companies as you heard, if you think uranium prices are going higher, I think they have no place else to go higher.
Frank Curzio: I don’t know the timeframe, that’s the hardest part to determine. But who cares? Because if they go higher, they’re not hedged, this is the pure play. This is the large cap that people talk to. It’s more like a midcap at $1.5 billion compared to what? About $11, $12 billion for Cameco. But you could see Cameco hedges their uranium production, so you’re not going to see the boost that you’re going to see from UEC. Now they had the volume, trade in New York Stock Exchange. So, people who believe in uranium, this is a great play. And these are the small caps if you want to take more risk or whatever. But I just love how he’s positioned his company. Like I said, I know him personally. He is an awesome dad, super smart, very good friend I trust greatly. But most importantly, I know he cares about his investors, and I can’t say that enough.
Frank Curzio: What pisses me off and you see me rant. I don’t like to talk about people unless it’s in front of their face. Again, I grew up in New York. You put yourself in front of your investors and listeners. And there’s a lot of people in our industry that do that, they don’t even care that people are listening to you, your advice, and they’re going out and buying stuff. And yet, you are in at a much, much lower price to them, you are making much, much more money than them, you’re making advertising dollars and a lot of people listen to you are getting absolutely crushed, but yet your net wealth goes higher and higher. So, that’s why people can rag about Cramer as much as you want, he’s not allowed to buy stocks, individual stocks. And I know see him throw chairs when he gets things wrong. I know that he cares, which makes him a lot better than a lot, a lot of people that have been around in this industry.
Frank Curzio: So again, you could hate him. And I know sometimes… Cramer, I love him. He’s helped me tremendously. He can be a drama queen. Sometimes he breaks a lot of stuff on this show. I’ll tell him that to his face. Still a friend. There’s a lot of people out there that don’t care what Amir… If you see him, he’s a great speaker. If you see him at conferences, he’s one of the guys that is going to spend time in his booth. He’s talking to investors. He doesn’t sneak out the back door once his speech is done, which you see often. And I’m not ragging on people because sometimes it’s crazy and people want free, free, free. And they’re just going to ask you a million questions until you walk away.
Frank Curzio: But a lot of times I speak at these events, most people just sneak out the back door. He’s always at his booth, he’s always talked to investors, and he cares. So much so that he was worried that listeners would take my joke seriously at the beginning when I said, “Oh, did you go to Davos on your private jet?” He doesn’t own a private jet. He’s never been on a private jet. He’s like, “Oh, hopefully nobody… “I was like, “Nobody’s going to. Don’t worry about it.” But that’s what he cares about. And this is his life. He hasn’t sold a share in this company. He may be wrong, but you know what? I have a lot of respect for people like that. Even if I have a difference in opinion, when you go all in, I think Dick Fuld and you could say whatever you want about Lehman, most of his wealth was gone. He was all in.
Frank Curzio: There’s people that are all in. They’ll give you all in. Fine. You deserve to be a billionaire if you’re all in. Or if you lose it, that’s fine. But just to see that long, just about two decades, never sold a share and the stock. Business industry. The smartest person I know in this industry and I know a lot of people in uranium. He is becoming the person. Again, you look at the Rick Rules, you look at some of the legends, these guys are getting older and older and looking to retire pretty much. When you get into your sixties and stuff, you’re not traveling as much. Amir is the next generation of these people, that the young people are coming up and listening to him. And that’s the people they look to when they want advice.
Frank Curzio: He’s the guy that Fox Business will go to. He’s the guy in CNBC. You’ll see interview in CNBC and Kitco. He’s the guy that people are going to. That’s it. And we have great access to him. But he’s a really good guy. I know we’ve dug pretty deep in that interview, but I needed to so you could understand why uranium. And it’s never been more in favor with government politicians and even pro-climate change groups than right now, which is significant because the fundamentals were always there. Especially over the last few years, you could look at supply and demand and the energy companies, they got to lock in and… It’s there. It’s all there the fundamentals to see. And I know the greatest fundamentalists and value guys talk about uranium and hedge funds are in uranium. It doesn’t matter if you have governments who are crapping on it and saying, “We don’t want this no matter what.” Because you’re looking at uranium as the cleanest, safest, 24-hour base load, clean energy.
Frank Curzio: You have everything. It checks off every box and we have it. We have access to it. And now you see even the strategic uranium reserve and government getting more involved, possible sanctions he was talking about, that’s on top of everything else that’s lining up. But more importantly, if you’re looking at sentiment, it’s clearly changing, especially after the war. Where do you want to go to? Because last time I checked, uranium is a lot better than coal, and Europe is going back to coal. Just Google it, coal, going back to coal, just Google that. You’ll see. They have to, they have no choice. You cut off the fossil fuels, that’s what happens. And it’s depended on someone else outside of these countries, that’s what happens. And they’re like, “Whoa. Okay, maybe uranium is better.” I think it’s much better than coal. But now, you’re seeing all this line up.
Frank Curzio: When it comes to uranium, you have to have some exposure to this sector in your portfolio. Make sure you have a 24- to 36-month outlook, money that you can just put there, you’re going to forget about. I have exposure. It’s about 5%, 6%, maybe 7% of my net worth. It was 2%, 3%, but I was in early in a lot of different deals and owned this stuff for five years, and that’s when it was really cheap and stuff was at the pennies. It went up. I was probably up a lot more, pulled back a little bit some of these stocks. But just to see how he continues to position himself with acquisitions to be the biggest player in this space, man, pretty awesome spot to be in a sector that looks this positive, especially in this volatile market where you’re seeing growth moderate significantly across the board. Much higher interest rates, so debt’s a problem.
Frank Curzio: Good balance sheet. Talk about utility companies that are flush with cash that need this supply of uranium and lock it in. You have a recession on the way. This is a company like an AT&T Daniel and I talk about, just growth, dividend, huge cash flow, money that’s going to constantly come in. These are the companies that excel in this environment. I know it’s crazy to think that way because the last 12 years you’ve been conditioned growth stocks, just buy technology. That’s what you do when you have super low interest rates historically on purpose, kept basically at zero, money is for free, and the government’s going crazy. Just QE, buying bonds, flood the market with liquidity. Those days are over, at least for the next couple of years. This is a sector that’s going to do very, very well. I think he’s well-positioned.
Frank Curzio: I want to thank Amir for coming on. Awesome interview again. Hopefully it wasn’t too technical, but I need to get into the fundamentals and get a little deep on what’s going on sometimes. A lot of times we joke around, have fun. You can see the seriousness where he is positioning himself, how excited he is. I think he’s going to be really, really right, especially this year. So, I say definitely get exposure to this sector. Either do UEC, do other stocks, whatever you want, but have some exposure. Because if prices do go up, even the most risky names are going to go up the most just like they go down the most. When you have bear markets, they go up the most when you have bull markets, and we’re heading for a bull market in this space. There’s no doubt in my mind, it’s just a matter of time but it’s going to happen.
Frank Curzio: I think it’s inevitable. So, I always say this after I interview, this podcast is about you more… Actually this podcast is about you, not about me. That’s what I always say. So, let me know what you thought at firstname.lastname@example.org. Here for you, email@example.com. Send me any emails. If you want to yell at me, you’re pissed, whatever. I’m here for you. What’s the point? I’m trying to bring you… Okay. Really great ideas, honest advice, and some great, great interviews. But I love your feedback. It’s how I base this podcast. That’s why I’ve been doing it for 15 years, because I listen to my customers, I listen to my listeners what they want. I try to help them out just like you guys help me out incredibly. This is going out to more than a hundred countries now, which is insane when I think about it. The downloads, I think it’s… I don’t even know the number, 15 to 20, but you could probably double or even triple that because that’s only Wall Street Unplugged over the last six years, seven years.
Frank Curzio: It doesn’t include TheStreet.com. I’ve been doing this podcast, holy cow. TheStreet.com was every single day and interviewing two, three people a day for two, three years. So, if you really look at downloads, I would say it’s more 50 million plus. And just to be able to go out and reach that many people, be independent, be honest with them, and trying to help them. That’s the goal. I’ve always had that. That’s been on the forefront, just help people. Yes, you might hear me curse and get pissed off and maybe talk about politics, some things that annoy me a little bit. But the goal and the focus has always been to help investors. And you guys have helped me incredibly, especially with this business. Curzio Research allowed me to get started. So, I really appreciate it.
Frank Curzio: And again, let me know what you thought. I love the feedback, firstname.lastname@example.org. That’s it for me. Hope you guys have a great weekend. Go Eagles. It’s going to be a good game for the 49ers. Both of those games are going to be really, really good. And hopefully, we can get a win, especially at home. And I’m glad we’re playing at home. I’ll see you guys next week. Take care.
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